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Author Topic: I'm not sure just what to think about this.  (Read 2387 times)

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Offline Bill Quick

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Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2013, 10:17:06 AM »
A more interesting question:  Would a perfect, atomic-level copy of you be you?
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

Offline Langenator

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Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2013, 10:32:08 AM »
A more interesting question:  Would a perfect, atomic-level copy of you be you?

It gets to that, as well, when you develop matter transporter beams. "What of the soul?"
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
“In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
"We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815


Offline cd

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Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #52 on: January 22, 2013, 10:37:59 AM »
If the original Mona Lisa was known to exist at Place X with Value Y, would the copy then also be worth Value Y? Methinks not.

Offline Ken

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Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #53 on: January 22, 2013, 12:45:57 PM »
If the original Mona Lisa was known to exist at Place X with Value Y, would the copy then also be worth Value Y? Methinks not.

True enough, but how are you going to determine which is the original?  And that's the problem many owners of jewels face (unknowingly) today.  I mean really, do you trust a company like de beers?  A company that had to be dragged kicking and screaming to do the right thing over Conflict Diamonds?  Don't forget, the South African diamond mines have been rendered almost unusable by disruption of the local power grid, due to extreme government corruption. (True, a lot of their operation has moved to Canada, but without even a minor blip?)
“If mankind is to survive, then throughout man’s history except for a very few years the word “ship” will mean “space ship.”
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Offline Langenator

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Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #54 on: January 22, 2013, 12:56:52 PM »
Has DeBeers ever faced any anti-trust actions?  If anyone deserves it, it's them.

(Cecil Rhodes sure was as a**hole, wasn't he?)
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
“In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
"We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815

Offline razorbacker

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Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2013, 02:50:21 PM »
Has DeBeers ever faced any anti-trust actions?  If anyone deserves it, it's them.

I purchased a young lady that I know a shiny bauble (in was a gift-giving occasion, not as a reward for services rendered or anything like that).  A man-made diamond, in a real gold setting.  I made no claim as to the authenticity of the stone, it was simply a shiny thing fit for decoration of a pretty girl in a social setting.

She had a jeweler friend look at it, and he said that he knew that it was fake because it was a perfect stone, and perfect stones were too expensive for someone like me to have gifted it.

Offline Ken

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Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #56 on: January 23, 2013, 04:30:00 PM »
I purchased a young lady that I know a shiny bauble (in was a gift-giving occasion, not as a reward for services rendered or anything like that).  A man-made diamond, in a real gold setting.  I made no claim as to the authenticity of the stone, it was simply a shiny thing fit for decoration of a pretty girl in a social setting.

She had a jeweler friend look at it, and he said that he knew that it was fake because it was a perfect stone, and perfect stones were too expensive for someone like me to have gifted it.


No, you just tell the jeweler friend, that you picked it and several more, up while deployed overseas, and that this nice, kindly foreign gentleman needed some bug-out American cash.

Tell 'em that you had been concerned it might have been some Conflict Diamonds, but weren't really sure. <G>

Kidding.......
“If mankind is to survive, then throughout man’s history except for a very few years the word “ship” will mean “space ship.”
Arthur C. Clarke

Offline Bill Quick

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Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #57 on: January 23, 2013, 05:20:53 PM »
I don't understand what the big deal is about "conflict," or "blood" diamonds.  That has absolutely nothing to do with the quality or value of the stones themselves.

I mean, "stones sold to finance an insurgency?" 

Remember "pledge our lives, fortunes, and sacred honor?"  Think the Founders maybe sold a precious gem or two to help finance the American Revolution?  Making them "blood diamonds," too?
Well, thank God for it, as far as I'm concerned.
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

Offline Ken

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Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #58 on: January 23, 2013, 06:08:28 PM »
Nah, blood or conflict just refers to the huge amount of people taken in slavery and killed, to mine diamonds to finance their side (whatever that is)  Many, many tribes, wiped off the face of the earth.

The fact is they are mostly excellent water stones.  And once in the system, very, very difficult to detect.

But in order to maybe cut down on the slaughter, many countries have outlawed dealing in them.  Still lots of people can't resist them.
“If mankind is to survive, then throughout man’s history except for a very few years the word “ship” will mean “space ship.”
Arthur C. Clarke

Offline Langenator

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Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #59 on: January 23, 2013, 06:43:24 PM »
By that standard, we should outlaw dealing in 'conflict heroin' and 'conflict cocaine' as well.

Heroin finances the Taliban, and cocaine the FARC, among various groups.

Although in those cases, it's the illegality of the substances in question that generates much of the profit.
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
“In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
"We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815

Offline Ken

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Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2013, 06:47:01 PM »
Yeah, and fat lot of good the outlawing of Conflict Diamonds is doing.....always have someone willing to take the risk.
“If mankind is to survive, then throughout man’s history except for a very few years the word “ship” will mean “space ship.”
Arthur C. Clarke

Offline Bill Quick

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Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2013, 07:16:40 PM »
Ken, whole tribes in Africa have been wiped off the face of the map in cases that had no connection to diamonds at all.  The whole notion of "blood diamonds" is just a scam dreamed up by white people trying to feel good about themselves because they are doing something, rather than doing things that actually might make a difference.  At least that's what it looks like to me.
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

Offline Ken

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Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2013, 07:41:27 PM »
True, I personally don't really see anything that makes the conflict diamonds really of sufficient evil, that the other diamond mines haven't been, in the past.
“If mankind is to survive, then throughout man’s history except for a very few years the word “ship” will mean “space ship.”
Arthur C. Clarke

Offline Bill Quick

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Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #63 on: January 23, 2013, 08:11:13 PM »
Or any other financial, industrial, ideological, or political endeavor that has supported mass slaughter in the past.  Diamonds got singled out because they are connected in the do-gooder mind with the evil rich.  And the evil rich are somehow behind everything evil, don't you know?
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

Offline Ken

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Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #64 on: January 23, 2013, 08:52:48 PM »
BTW, Bill, the new URL that I posted about PRI, says they are going begin launch of mining robots between 2014-2016. (Actually the tracking robot portion of the mining operation)
“If mankind is to survive, then throughout man’s history except for a very few years the word “ship” will mean “space ship.”
Arthur C. Clarke

Offline Bill Quick

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Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #65 on: January 23, 2013, 09:32:47 PM »
Yes, I saw.  There's a lot of preliminary work yet to be done before actual production can begin.  And initial production will be quite small.  For a while.
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

Offline razorbacker

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Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #66 on: January 30, 2013, 07:24:08 PM »
Well, since I came into a little more paper money, and can't trade the paper money for precious lead at any price locally, I purchased a bit more silver from the same dealer.

This time, instead of rolls of proof silver coins, I got recently minted proof silver quarters.  They're still in those nice display cases (five quarters per case) that the mint uses.

LOL.  I'm not at all sure how to get them out of the cases in such a way that I could get them back into the cases, were I to want to do that.

But, if you look at the price of silver when these coins were minted vs. current silver prices, the dealer still made a handsome paper profit.  And, since the dealer is only charging a 10 percent markup over spot it seems to me to be no more risky than investing in gasoline, or pork, or beef, or beans, or well...anything.

Offline ND Martin

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Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #67 on: January 30, 2013, 08:30:34 PM »
Each of the silver proof quarters weighs 6.25 grams and is 90% silver.  The five coins are equivalent to .904239747 troy ounces of pure silver.  The US Mint sells the set for $41.95, so even at spot+10% today you are buying better than direct.  Spot right now is $32/troy ounce so the melt value of the set is $28.94 plus your premium brings the price to $31.83--ten bucks cheaper than the Mint.

APMEX has $10 rolls of silver quarters in stock at $246.86 ($10 over spot) plus $12.95 shipping.  Thats about the same price as your dealer.  The price is low because the coins are 'impaired' which just means they have some scratches on 'em.

Offline razorbacker

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Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #68 on: January 30, 2013, 08:48:38 PM »
While I'm strictly interested in the bullion aspect, my wife was looking at the coins and mentioned that, if all coins were as pretty as these are, everyone would want to use coins.

'Course, once you toted them around in your pocket a while I bet that nice frosted looking raised part and the super shiney background would look as commonplace as any coin in general circulation.


 


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