Max Velocity Tactical



Your Ad Here - Email for Info

You Can Shop At Amazon and Help Support Emergency-Preps.com Without It Costing You One Thin Dime - Click Here to Learn How!

Author Topic: I'm not sure just what to think about this.  (Read 3341 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline oldguy52

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 557
  • Karma: +16/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2013, 09:08:00 PM »
Not really, you got the sun for pretty good smelter, and AMUN 3554 is kinda delivering itself.  It will have a near Earth approach around 2020.  And like I said, there's all those other methods of power generation coming online........

So.... what's the plan? Just take it apart as it's flying by? Surely they don't think they can stop it and bring it home with them.

Seriously, I'm asking.
O.G.

"Stupid is supposed to be painful, it's nature's way of learnin' ya" - Me, 1994

When one finds himself living in interesting times, it is prudent to become as uninteresting as possible.... Me, 2011

Offline Ken

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +8/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2013, 09:15:10 PM »
They are not saying, but I've seen some old plans, and that was to crash it on Luna.  (I know that PRI -Planetary Resources Incorporated is trying like heck to orbit a constellation of tracking satellites, as soon as they can)

It's doable, it's about a mile in diameter.
“If mankind is to survive, then throughout man’s history except for a very few years the word “ship” will mean “space ship.”
Arthur C. Clarke


Offline Bill Quick

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5036
  • Karma: +51/-6
  • Gender: Male
    • Daily Pundit
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2013, 09:42:39 PM »
Ken, I can confidently predict that Amun 3554 will have zero effect on PM prices by 2020.  Aluminum functioned as a PM for a while because of its rarity, but as soon as that ceased, so did its "preciousness.'

Napoleon's opinion of its value is relatively meaningless - he might have valued it, but everybody else was still storing up gold and silver.

Until we manage to do with gold, silver, and platinum what we did with aluminum, they will continue in their traditional roles.  And maybe even after.  We can make synthetic emeralds, diamonds, rubies, sapphires, and so forth, but than have only fractional value as compared to the real thing.

Agreed, gold and silver smelted from asteroids will be indistinguishable from bars smelted on Earth, but we are a good while from seeing that have any effects.

I remember when we went to the moon, and I thought that within 20 years of that achievement, we'd have a lunar colony and be looking as colonizing Mars as well.

Didn't happen.  Now, 2035....

We'll see.
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

Offline Ken

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +8/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2013, 10:03:41 PM »
Hate to disagree with you Bill, but how long did Apollo take to get going, from scratch?

And synthetic sapphires are much more valuable than real ones and the same with some rubies, as for the value of diamonds, that is still pretty much in control of the Diamond Cartel.  Nowadays synthetic gems can be much better quality than real.  (Yep manufacturing has improved, that much)

And I shudder to think of how they are going to divert the asteroid, but we already have the technology to do so.......the Orion Effect.

Off the cuff calculations, they could do it with one nuke bomb, do it easily with three bombs, and kiss it to a soft touch down with around six shaped nuclear charges.
“If mankind is to survive, then throughout man’s history except for a very few years the word “ship” will mean “space ship.”
Arthur C. Clarke

Offline Ken

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +8/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2013, 10:10:09 PM »
In addition, Japan is already using the seawater extraction method to pull gold out of downstream of some of their electronics factories.  Make electricity cheaper, and they will just use it a lot more.

Be a real nifty thing to have on a seastead.
“If mankind is to survive, then throughout man’s history except for a very few years the word “ship” will mean “space ship.”
Arthur C. Clarke

Offline BooMushroom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 557
  • Karma: +17/-0
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2013, 11:18:37 PM »
Oh yes, I absolutely agree, the relative values of most everything will change.

But, The problem is, there is a time problem. What is the difference between the time it takes for people to become confident enough in some form of money that is inedible and the time it takes to starve to death?

What I am getting at here is; IF one is planning to use PMs or any other form of money to trade immediately after a disaster AND has not put away enough provisions to last until a free market can become established.... Well IMHO he may not be around to see it happen.

I know or at least I don't believe anyone here (you and me for sure) is thinking about prepping that way, but I don't doubt there are people who are.

If wheat is almost impossible to lay your hands on, but you happen to have 500 lbs of it, how much gold would you take for yours? You wouldn't... Neither would I.

Mr. Quick might have a different answer. And if you had 500 lbs of wheat, but no grinder...

But yes, I agree with the main thrust of your comment: one must be able to survive an initial sorting-out period before markets re-form after a big disaster.

Offline oldguy52

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 557
  • Karma: +16/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2013, 12:18:20 AM »
Mr. Quick might have a different answer. And if you had 500 lbs of wheat, but no grinder...

But yes, I agree with the main thrust of your comment: one must be able to survive an initial sorting-out period before markets re-form after a big disaster.


Indeed, but it did occur to me that wheat wouldn't be much good without something that would turn it to flour. I surely do have a flour mill. But I see where you're going... Some might not. Sounds like an opportunity to start the Old G Medal flour company :)
O.G.

"Stupid is supposed to be painful, it's nature's way of learnin' ya" - Me, 1994

When one finds himself living in interesting times, it is prudent to become as uninteresting as possible.... Me, 2011

Offline ND Martin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
  • Karma: +12/-1
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2013, 01:11:57 AM »
Ken- All well and good.  Indeed, new power technology (and let's not forget nanotech) can't come fast enough.  But that has little to do presently with the relentless (orchestrated) decline of the dollar's buying power (value).

There is a time to buy and a time to sell for any investment, and now is a good time to be buying silver IMO. 

Offline Ken

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +8/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2013, 02:18:35 AM »
Ken- All well and good.  Indeed, new power technology (and let's not forget nanotech) can't come fast enough.  But that has little to do presently with the relentless (orchestrated) decline of the dollar's buying power (value).

There is a time to buy and a time to sell for any investment, and now is a good time to be buying silver IMO.

ND-but let's not forget that any investment, any PM are market/demand driven.  What are you going to do, if the government outlaws gold and silver, and you are told to turn it all in?  How much demand for your silver be then?  All I'm saying is that the market always shifts, and sometimes you aren't going to be fast enough.  Just be careful in what you stock and how much.

So says the man who bought a bunch of Apple stock, when it was $12 a share.  I had to be able to lose it all, and not count it towards net worth.  When I was born, my father was asked to invest $500' in Mitsubishi stock.  He did not.  We estimated that by the mid-80's it would have been worth $12 million. Slight regret, but at the time he needed the money for other things.

While I don't have much money, now, it did enable me to quit everything and come home to take care of my parents, so again, slight regret, but nothing else.
“If mankind is to survive, then throughout man’s history except for a very few years the word “ship” will mean “space ship.”
Arthur C. Clarke

Offline Haverwilde

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: +9/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2013, 12:50:53 PM »
Just a side note on wheat.
Wheat has the same food value whether you grind it or not.
So you can use it in stews, soups and boiled as berries, or sprouted for salads or as a vegie.
If fact sprouted wheat develops some nice additional nutrients. You can even make sprouted wheat bread if you have to have bread, but it is easier to make with a little flour.
Diabolus fecit, ut id facerem!

Offline Bill Quick

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5036
  • Karma: +51/-6
  • Gender: Male
    • Daily Pundit
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2013, 01:53:10 PM »
And synthetic sapphires are much more valuable than real ones and the same with some rubies
Cite, please.
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

Offline Bill Quick

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5036
  • Karma: +51/-6
  • Gender: Male
    • Daily Pundit
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2013, 01:55:19 PM »

ND-but let's not forget that any investment, any PM are market/demand driven.  What are you going to do, if the government outlaws gold and silver, and you are told to turn it all in?
Disobey.
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

Offline Ken

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +8/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2013, 02:45:12 PM »
And synthetic sapphires are much more valuable than real ones and the same with some rubies
Cite, please.

Bill

Sapphires are used heavily in electronics, and synthetics are more pure than natural.

A good example of gem use is the star sapphire, you get a clean crisp star, with a synthetic, but not with a real, and the color is better and more consistent.  A more sought after star is the Linde, man made, rather than naturals. (They stopped manufacturing them during the 70's, but are thinking of starting up a factory, recently). You might pay $5 to $20 a carat for a natural star, but a man made will usually go for $100 to $200 a carat.  You are going to see a lot of naturals for the next few years, because Afghanistan is a decent source, and GI's will get some really good deals.

To be honest, most natural sapphires need to be "cooked" before becoming gem-quality, and have for years, so it becomes a point of contention, of how much "natural" they are.

Emeralds are hard to make, and that's one of the biggest reasons they are so valued
“If mankind is to survive, then throughout man’s history except for a very few years the word “ship” will mean “space ship.”
Arthur C. Clarke

Offline ND Martin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
  • Karma: +12/-1
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2013, 03:06:37 PM »
What gold and silver?   I suppose that anyone coming for metal would have to settle for lead.

Offline Ken

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +8/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2013, 03:45:56 PM »
What gold and silver?   I suppose that anyone coming for metal would have to settle for lead.

Heh! That's the right way.  But your market will be more underground and harder to use.

Ah, I should mention, when I was younger, I cut gems, as a hobby (talk about a girl magnet!)
I still have some and added them to my Dad's stuff, in the family safety deposit, at the local CU.
Gems are a pain in the butt, to barter with.  The white gold (platinum/gold) mounts are a lot easier to deal with.
“If mankind is to survive, then throughout man’s history except for a very few years the word “ship” will mean “space ship.”
Arthur C. Clarke

Offline Ken

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +8/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2013, 04:10:02 PM »
I should mention that there are problems in dealing with some gems.

Blue Topaz is a bad example.  If you get a real good deal on a blue topaz, pull out a Geiger Counter, quick! < g>
“If mankind is to survive, then throughout man’s history except for a very few years the word “ship” will mean “space ship.”
Arthur C. Clarke

Offline Flight-ER-Doc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2255
  • Karma: +57/-7
  • Gender: Male
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2013, 04:14:15 PM »
ND-but let's not forget that any investment, any PM are market/demand driven.  What are you going to do, if the government outlaws gold and silver, and you are told to turn it all in?  How much demand for your silver be then?  All I'm saying is that the market always shifts, and sometimes you aren't going to be fast enough.  Just be careful in what you stock and how much.

So says the man who bought a bunch of Apple stock, when it was $12 a share.  I had to be able to lose it all, and not count it towards net worth.  When I was born, my father was asked to invest $500' in Mitsubishi stock.  He did not.  We estimated that by the mid-80's it would have been worth $12 million. Slight regret, but at the time he needed the money for other things.

While I don't have much money, now, it did enable me to quit everything and come home to take care of my parents, so again, slight regret, but nothing else.


LOL.  My Uncle, an attorney, was once offered a fairly large chunk of stock in a small company in payment of legal services....he turned it down, preferring cash in payment.  10,000 shares of a small communications company with a couple of patents.

This was 25 or so years ago.

The company?  Qualcomm.

And he thinks he's the smart one in the family  ::)
Yes, I'm a physician.  No, I'm not YOUR physician.  Nothing I say here is medical advice.

Do I treat Glocks like I treat my lawn mowers?  No, I treat them worse.  I treat my defensive weapons like my fire extinguishers and smoke detector - annual maintenance and I expect them to work when needed

Offline ND Martin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
  • Karma: +12/-1
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2013, 04:16:51 PM »
All I'm saying is that the market always shifts, and sometimes you aren't going to be fast enough.  Just be careful in what you stock and how much.

Yer preachin' to the choir, Ken, but you're not wrong.  I trade for a living, and watch the pm markets tick by tick.  Most of the metal that I've squirreled away was purchased at significantly less than half of current prices.

I don't see confiscation or even confiscatory taxation as likely.  There simply isn't enough money there.  Roosevelt 'confiscated' gold as a mechanism to devalue the dollar, and in fact the US was one of the last countries to devalue their currency in this manner.  Gold was purchased by the government at $20.67 and once most of the gold was out of circulation the price was changed to $35/oz, instantly devaluing the dollar by about 40%.   Today gold reflects the value of the dollar rather than defining it.

I'm more fearful that the Keynesian fools will go after all the money in retirement accounts, selling the action as some kind of financial 'reform'.  The mechanism would be something like requiring conversion of funds held in retirement accounts (including IRAs) to some kind of new government bond or note as a requirement for preserving the tax advantages.  

Offline Drang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2465
  • Karma: +30/-3
    • The Cluemeter
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2013, 04:51:20 PM »
I don't see confiscation or even confiscatory taxation as likely.  There simply isn't enough money there.  
And yet, the statists keep saying jacking up tax rates for "the one per cent" will pay for all the hope and change The Won's unicorn can fart out...
The United States Constitution
(c) 1791.
All Rights Reserved.

Offline Bill Quick

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5036
  • Karma: +51/-6
  • Gender: Male
    • Daily Pundit
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2013, 06:37:19 PM »
Ken, I wasn't really thinking of star sapphires.  More something like these:



Various royal families, especially the Brits, have a lot of this sort of stuff squirreled away - including the bauble above.  Apparently they regard it as precious.  At least they haven't replaced it with 200 carat chunks of synthetic yet.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 06:42:08 PM by Bill Quick »
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

Offline Ken

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +8/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2013, 07:17:05 PM »
Bill - I understand, but even the regular sapphires are "cooked" to "correct" the color, and have been for quite some time.  It's very rare to get the large crystal, with rare prized clarity, in the raw.

All too many gems in these modern times are treated.

There's lots of different methods used on gems to make them look pretty.  That's why the line is a bit blurred on what synthetic and what's natural.
“If mankind is to survive, then throughout man’s history except for a very few years the word “ship” will mean “space ship.”
Arthur C. Clarke

Offline Bill Quick

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5036
  • Karma: +51/-6
  • Gender: Male
    • Daily Pundit
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2013, 08:30:17 PM »
It's pretty simple, AFAIC.  If it was originally dug out of the ground, it's natural.  If it was created by some manufacturing process from scratch, it's synthetic.  I'm not a big subscriber on nuance in things like this.  And I still maintain, especially after doing a bit of research just now, that natural gems are considered to be more precious (and fetch a higher price) than the synthetic versions.
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

Offline Ken

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +8/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2013, 09:20:01 PM »
It still remains, even a good gemologist usually can't tell the difference.  And that's why it isn't really pushed.  That's the biggest reason most high value gems are laser etched.  You got to have paperwork.

There is a process, you need a hard vacuum, a source of power, and minimum or zero G.  And you can grow huge diamonds, are those synthetic?  Then what about pearls?  All too many natural gems have flaws, and more and more the customers don't want those flaws.  But who determines the pricing?  It's too much opinion based.

Right now, the gems that have skyrocketed in value are some from Madagascar, and those have quadrupled in the last two years, but only because of the difficulty in synthesizing them, and most of the collectors are going to extremes, to get paperwork on them, just to ensure their value.

The Diamond Cartels are doing cartwheels to artificially keep prices high, vs letting the market determine the value.

So how do you determine what's natural or synthetic?  Paperwork, and we all know how reliable paperwork can be.  So how are most people even going to start to find out which gems are natural or not?  Knowing some of the big players in the gem market, I'd be willing to bet that there are substantial synthetics that have the right paperwork behind them, and that's why you haven't heard about the strides made in material science, since the 70's.

Let's just put it this way.....somebody is paying lots of money to keep those gem production facilities in business, and where are the output of said factories going?
“If mankind is to survive, then throughout man’s history except for a very few years the word “ship” will mean “space ship.”
Arthur C. Clarke

Offline Langenator

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1386
  • Karma: +18/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2013, 07:07:02 AM »
It's pretty simple, AFAIC.  If it was originally dug out of the ground, it's natural.  If it was created by some manufacturing process from scratch, it's synthetic.  I'm not a big subscriber on nuance in things like this.  And I still maintain, especially after doing a bit of research just now, that natural gems are considered to be more precious (and fetch a higher price) than the synthetic versions.

I remember something, in some sci-fi planetary colonization game I used to play, when you built some nano-tech related thing, that asked, if I can get nanobots to build me a Mona Lisa, an exact copy down to the molecular level, is the result the same thing as the original?
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
“In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
"We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815

Offline Bill Quick

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5036
  • Karma: +51/-6
  • Gender: Male
    • Daily Pundit
Re: I'm not sure just what to think about this.
« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2013, 10:16:14 AM »
It's a perfect copy.  But no actual art would be involved.
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone


 


Your Ad Here - Email for Info
Help Support E-P.com
Even A Buck Makes A Difference!
Or Make Convenient Monthly
Donations By Selecting
A Payment Option
Payment Options