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Author Topic: What Do Liberals Want?  (Read 319 times)

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Offline Drang

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What Do Liberals Want?
« on: January 14, 2013, 10:14:10 AM »
Well, they gave a little list to Obama today:
They delivered this to His Imperial Majesty today.
Preventing Gun Violence in Our Nation | Center for American Progress
  • A background check for every gun sale - private, too
  • Input all necessary records into the FBI National Instant Criminal Background Check System ("states must provide the federal government with the names of all the individuals who are prohibited from owning firearms for inclusion in the nationwide database.")
    • The effort to get records into the National Instant Criminal Background Check System can be strengthened in four important ways:
    •     Toughening penalties on states that do not provide records to the database
    •     Requiring federal agencies to affirm that they have provided required records to the database
    •     Clarifying the definition of “mentally ill” to ensure that individuals with a serious mental illness are prohibited from purchasing guns
    •     Requiring background checks for all gun sales
    • Prevent convicted stalkers from acquiring guns
    • Close the “terror gap” ("Nothing in the current law prevents known or suspected terrorists from clearing a background check and purchasing guns.")
    • Penalize states that fail to provide records to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System
    • Ensure that federal agencies provide required records to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System
    • Perform background checks on employees of federally licensed dealers during the course of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives audit inspections
    • Reregulate assault weapons
    • Ban high-capacity gun magazines
    • Require broader reporting of multiple sales of assault rifles
    • Strip riders from the administration’s fiscal year 2014 budget and all future budgets that restrict gun data collection and sharing  (You knew they had to be going for the Tiarht Amendment, right?)
    • Treat gun trafficking as a serious crime
    • Begin the process of the FBI absorbing the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives
    Absorbing the ATFEIEIO into the FBI has been tried before, the Feebs refused to go along with it. Treasury was delighted to palm them off on Homeland Security, not sure how Homeland passed the hot potato over to Justice, but they managed.
    The United States Constitution
    (c) 1791.
    All Rights Reserved.

    Offline TsMom

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    Re: What Do Liberals Want?
    « Reply #1 on: January 14, 2013, 11:57:11 AM »
    A local groupon-like company is selling time at a local gun range, ammunition, and gun rental for $24 today.  I bought a similar deal last year at the same gun range.  It was really nice. The deal has already 1000 groupons.  I won't be buying it this time.  Mostly because of the number of people that bought and the short time to use the groupon.  I agree with the good professor.  Obama is the best gun salesman in history.


    Offline Langenator

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    Re: What Do Liberals Want?
    « Reply #2 on: January 14, 2013, 02:37:19 PM »
    A lot of that is stuff that's been on the anti's wish list for a while, and a lot of it is just wishful thinking, or at least, stuff that they haven't thought all the way through.

    Like the stalker thing - either the stalker has been convicted of a felony crime, and thus is already ineligible, or not.  Since SCOTUS has already said the RKBA is a fundamental right, you can't just go taking it away for misdemeanors (yes, I'm looking at you, Mr. Lautenberg.)

    Same thing with their so-called "terror gap" - there's huge due process issues with that, especially "suspected terrorists."  I think Schumer at some point was trying to get everyone on the the No-Fly list put on a "No Buy" list, until the due process issues were pointed out.

    And unless the Feds are providing funding for reporting state criminal and mental health info into the NICS database, they'll run into the unfunded mandate problem.  SCOTUS has already said that Uncle Sam can't just force the states to incur expenses without giving them funds to pay for it.

    And "treat gun trafficking as a serious crime" is something you'd probably get agreement on from the NRA, GOA, SAF, and most gun nuts.  For whatever reason, probably having a lot to do with bureaucratic incentives, law enforcement agencies don't seem to make it a priority.  (Unless they've got other motives, as in FnF.)  If I had to guess, I'd say it's probably a high work/low reward kind of thing.  Local agencies don't have the resources, and may or may not share info with the Feds, if the Feds are interested.  For the ATF, it's a lot easier to ding FFLs for paperwork booboos than it is to invest lots of resources in gun running investigations that only net a few convictions.
    Fortuna Fortis Paratus
    “In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
    "We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815

    Offline oldguy52

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    Re: What Do Liberals Want?
    « Reply #3 on: January 14, 2013, 02:46:56 PM »
    Oh yeah like burying a gun buyer in useless bureaucracy and paperwork is not infringing on the right to keep and bear arms.

    Stalkers? Have they been convicted? If not, then they're not stalkers.

    Terrorists? Have they been convicted? Ditto

    States are going broke now and yet we should add what will amount to a huge financial burden? They can't even keep track of their voter registrations and now we should add this?

    The Constitution and Second Amendment are written very clearly concerning this. If they want to change it, let them amend the Constitution.

    I wish them much luck in that endeavor.

    Until they've done that I don't see where there's even room for debate on this issue.
    O.G.

    "Stupid is supposed to be painful, it's nature's way of learnin' ya" - Me, 1994

    When one finds himself living in interesting times, it is prudent to become as uninteresting as possible.... Me, 2011

    Offline cd

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    Re: What Do Liberals Want?
    « Reply #4 on: January 14, 2013, 02:52:32 PM »
    ...

    And "treat gun trafficking as a serious crime" is something you'd probably get agreement on from the NRA, GOA, SAF, and most gun nuts. ...
    Let me know when they are ready to start with Eric Holder...  ::)

    Offline xtron

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    Re: What Do Liberals Want?
    « Reply #5 on: January 14, 2013, 04:13:47 PM »
    i remember back in 1968 the anti smoker loibby was pushing for a ban on smoking on domestic flights of two hours or less.
    they claimed they did not want to take your choice to smoke away, but anyone could not smoke for 2 hours, and that was all they wanted……and……
    today there are few places a smoker can excersize his choice to smoke. in fact one city in florida is considering banning smoking within city limits, including in personal cars and houses/apartments.

    so when the gun grabbers tell you “all” they want is sensable controls remember what happened to smokers.
    today it’s banning hicap magazines, you don’t need 10 rounds to kill a deer…tomorrow it is scoped rifles..oswalt killed kennedy, and the beltway snipers used them..they are sniper weapons, and no civilian should have them…..next it will be “combat” shotguns…why do you need more than one shot to drop a bird??…then, because there are so many murders and suicides by handgun, they will be banned “for the publics safety”
    in the end, the only single shot shotguns, and single shot small caliber rifles will be “legal”, and then only to a small select group of elite hunters.
    after that, the real oppression will begin..ref. nazi germany, stalins russia, mao’s china.

    i am walt kowlaski

    Offline oldguy52

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    Re: What Do Liberals Want?
    « Reply #6 on: January 14, 2013, 06:48:05 PM »
    i remember back in 1968 the anti smoker loibby was pushing for a ban on smoking on domestic flights of two hours or less.
    they claimed they did not want to take your choice to smoke away, but anyone could not smoke for 2 hours, and that was all they wanted……and……
    today there are few places a smoker can excersize his choice to smoke. in fact one city in florida is considering banning smoking within city limits, including in personal cars and houses/apartments.

    so when the gun grabbers tell you “all” they want is sensable controls remember what happened to smokers.
    today it’s banning hicap magazines, you don’t need 10 rounds to kill a deer…tomorrow it is scoped rifles..oswalt killed kennedy, and the beltway snipers used them..they are sniper weapons, and no civilian should have them…..next it will be “combat” shotguns…why do you need more than one shot to drop a bird??…then, because there are so many murders and suicides by handgun, they will be banned “for the publics safety”
    in the end, the only single shot shotguns, and single shot small caliber rifles will be “legal”, and then only to a small select group of elite hunters.
    after that, the real oppression will begin..ref. nazi germany, stalins russia, mao’s china.

    i am walt kowlaski


    Indeed xtron. As Mark Levin would say: It's the Bill of Rights, NOT the Bill of Needs.
    O.G.

    "Stupid is supposed to be painful, it's nature's way of learnin' ya" - Me, 1994

    When one finds himself living in interesting times, it is prudent to become as uninteresting as possible.... Me, 2011

    Offline Drang

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    Re: What Do Liberals Want?
    « Reply #7 on: January 14, 2013, 07:24:10 PM »
    A lot of that is stuff that's been on the anti's wish list for a while, and a lot of it is just wishful thinking, or at least, stuff that they haven't thought all the way through.
    Joe Biden on guns: White House readies 19 executive actions - POLITICO.com
    The United States Constitution
    (c) 1791.
    All Rights Reserved.

    Offline cd

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    Re: What Do Liberals Want?
    « Reply #8 on: January 14, 2013, 07:55:13 PM »
    Reid Downplays Chances for Assault Gun Ban, Filibuster Changes

    Quote
    ...
    He said he wants to see what President Barack Obama wants to do by administrative means. Reid also expressed reservations about legislation to outlaw assault weapons, a measure that he has long opposed.

    “Is it something that can pass the Senate? Maybe. Is it something that can pass the House? I doubt it,” Reid said. “So I think there are things that we know we can do.”
    ...

    Offline ND Martin

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    Re: What Do Liberals Want?
    « Reply #9 on: January 14, 2013, 08:56:53 PM »
    What do liberals want?  Something like this...



    In all seriousness, here is an excellent essay by Judge Andrew Napolitano which notes that 2A is about the 'right to shoot tyrants, not deer'.


     


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