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Author Topic: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter  (Read 1177 times)

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Offline Bill Quick

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Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« on: December 16, 2012, 11:49:20 PM »
Connecticut school shooting: Did paranoid, gun-crazed mother trigger Adam Lanza's school killing spree? Friends say she believed world was on edge of collapse | Mail Online

Did paranoid, gun-crazed mother trigger son's school killing spree? Friends say she believed world was on edge of collapse

  • Nancy Lanza portrayed as 'survivalist' who stockpiled food, water and guns

Words fail me.

"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

Offline Langenator

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2012, 09:26:43 AM »
Honestly, the one way in which the mother could be in some way partly responsible is if she knew that her son was dangerous, and failed to take appropriate steps to keep him from having access to the guns.

Given that mental health professionals and folks with M.D. after their name who specialize in how people can be screwed up in the head haven't figured out how to reliably determine if a person is crazy in a dangerous way prior to said person actually hurting people, I think it's doubtful that she could have known to any reasonable degree of certainty.
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
“In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
"We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815


Offline Flight-ER-Doc

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2012, 10:24:35 AM »
Honestly, the one way in which the mother could be in some way partly responsible is if she knew that her son was dangerous, and failed to take appropriate steps to keep him from having access to the guns.

Given that mental health professionals and folks with M.D. after their name who specialize in how people can be screwed up in the head haven't figured out how to reliably determine if a person is crazy in a dangerous way prior to said person actually hurting people, I think it's doubtful that she could have known to any reasonable degree of certainty.

Unfortunately, while I can look at someone and tell you they are ill, whacked, crazy, dangerous, etc, making a legal case for their involuntary commitment is not simple or easy.  Mentally ill people have rights, too, including the right to refuse treatment.  And considering how various totalitarian regimes in the past have used mental health facilities as prisons, that's not necessarily a bad thing.  They (the mentally ill) are also quite good at gaming the system, knowing what to say to whom to achieve their goals, and while modern drugs are far better than they used to be in treating profound mental illness, they are not perfect, permanent, or without their own problems.

According to the news reports I've seen, the dead mother had a safe.  Were the firearms kept in it?  Did the shooter have access to the combination or keys?  We don't know.

We do know that the shooters at VaTech, and in Arizona, were considered a threat by authorities at the respective schools, and the mental health professional in the case of the Colorado shooter had notified police that he was a threat.  Yet society was unable to prevent the killings.
Yes, I'm a physician.  No, I'm not YOUR physician.  Nothing I say here is medical advice.

Do I treat Glocks like I treat my lawn mowers?  No, I treat them worse.  I treat my defensive weapons like my fire extinguishers and smoke detector - annual maintenance and I expect them to work when needed

Offline Bill Quick

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2012, 11:20:24 AM »
According to other reports, mom had trained both boys in the use of firearms, and all three went to the range together.

This is what most firearms experts recommend as an optimal way to handle the issue of firearms and kids in family context.

ER-Doc, there has been talk of Asperger's Syndrome.  Is the syndrome actually associated with violence to any appreciable extent?
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

Offline Flight-ER-Doc

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2012, 01:12:45 PM »
According to other reports, mom had trained both boys in the use of firearms, and all three went to the range together.

This is what most firearms experts recommend as an optimal way to handle the issue of firearms and kids in family context.

ER-Doc, there has been talk of Asperger's Syndrome.  Is the syndrome actually associated with violence to any appreciable extent?

Not really, but it is associated with poor impulse control and a difficulty in social interactions - sufferers simply don't understand that their behavior is socially unacceptable, to the point that people can feel threatened  - but they are rarely dangerous.

However, a preliminary diagnosis of Aspergers is not cause to involuntarily commit someone. 
Yes, I'm a physician.  No, I'm not YOUR physician.  Nothing I say here is medical advice.

Do I treat Glocks like I treat my lawn mowers?  No, I treat them worse.  I treat my defensive weapons like my fire extinguishers and smoke detector - annual maintenance and I expect them to work when needed

Offline Ken

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2012, 05:13:11 PM »
Interestingly enough, it seems the more recent mass murderers are choosing areas that ban guns, to run amuck in.  The school zones are a zero gun tolerance areas, in ct.


As for the Batman killer, in Colorado,
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/09/10/did-colorado-shooter-single-out-cinemark-theater/

It seems he scoped out theaters in advance, to target a Cinemark Theater, that did not allow concealed carry, in their theaters.......to lessen the chance anyone would shoot back.
“If mankind is to survive, then throughout man’s history except for a very few years the word “ship” will mean “space ship.”
Arthur C. Clarke

Offline Langenator

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2012, 06:16:03 PM »
Interestingly enough, it seems the more recent mass murderers are choosing areas that ban guns, to run amuck in.  The school zones are a zero gun tolerance areas, in ct.


As for the Batman killer, in Colorado,
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/09/10/did-colorado-shooter-single-out-cinemark-theater/

It seems he scoped out theaters in advance, to target a Cinemark Theater, that did not allow concealed carry, in their theaters.......to lessen the chance anyone would shoot back.

Goes well beyond that:  “With just one single exception, the attack on congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson in 2011, every public shooting since at least 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns.”

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335739/facts-about-mass-shootings-john-fund#

Given that, maybe we should ban gun-free zones.
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
“In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
"We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815

Offline oldguy52

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2012, 10:24:51 PM »
This has been bothering me for a while now and I doubt that I'll be able to get it into words adequately, but I'm gonna try anyway.

When are we going to come to the realization that we cannot hope to predict, let alone stop every random act of violence before somebody gets hurt?

Are we going to now lock up everyone who shows the slightest sign of being mentally, a little off? Or, drug them until they're so stupid all they can do is drool on their shirts? How many lives will be ruined for no good reason on account of this? And the bigger question is, who decides who is dangerous and who is not? The gov't? How long before just disagreeing with this person or panel/agency gets you a little trip to the rest home?

The real world has never been a safe place and it never will be. There are bad people out there. Some are openly bad and some turn bad at unpredictable times. The best we can do is realize and accept that sometimes all the precautions, security systems, locked doors, cameras, etc. just aren't enough and there may come a time we are going to be faced with the ultimate dilemma, the police aren't coming, either man up and defend yourself and those you care about, or die. We cannot hope to to prevail in these situations without being armed. We can't afford to stand a cop on every corner. We have to accept that ultimately our safety is our responsibility, prepare accordingly and not let some progressive bed-wetter make believe we will be safe in his "Gun Free Zone".
O.G.

"Stupid is supposed to be painful, it's nature's way of learnin' ya" - Me, 1994

When one finds himself living in interesting times, it is prudent to become as uninteresting as possible.... Me, 2011

Offline satantroll

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2012, 06:17:19 AM »
Canadians love guns, in general.  We are hunters, we go to the range, we collect them...  Yet concealed carry is banned everywhere & we have very strict gun laws, in terms of acquisition & storage.  With the exception of police & the odd thug (who will never follow laws anyway), NO ONE carries guns here.  Now I`m not trying to say that there is no crime in Canada, but shootings & armed robbery are not common.  We have no such thing as `gun free zones``...  The whole country is a gun free zone.  I have never feared for my life.

I`m not saying, but I`m just saying. 
There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

Offline Ken

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2012, 09:14:03 AM »
Canadians love guns, in general.  We are hunters, we go to the range, we collect them...  Yet concealed carry is banned everywhere & we have very strict gun laws, in terms of acquisition & storage.  With the exception of police & the odd thug (who will never follow laws anyway), NO ONE carries guns here.  Now I`m not trying to say that there is no crime in Canada, but shootings & armed robbery are not common.  We have no such thing as `gun free zones``...  The whole country is a gun free zone.  I have never feared for my life.

I`m not saying, but I`m just saying. 


Gun Control, Hmph.    In Japan, it's seven years mandatory, for even possession, yet it's little ol' Switzerland, in which it's mandated that everyone in the military reserve have their military weapons at home, that has far, far less gun crimes than either Canada or Japan.

So you were saying?

BTW. since our Supreme Courts ruled that LEO's (Law Enforcement Officials) are not there for the protection of the people, but are there to enforce the laws of local government, whose there to protect us?  Don't forget, in some areas, it's an average of 3 hours for a response to a 911 call.  If I remember correctly, over 4 million crimes a year, are neutralized by armed citizens.
“If mankind is to survive, then throughout man’s history except for a very few years the word “ship” will mean “space ship.”
Arthur C. Clarke

Offline Flight-ER-Doc

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2012, 09:28:22 AM »
Canadians love guns, in general.  We are hunters, we go to the range, we collect them...  Yet concealed carry is banned everywhere & we have very strict gun laws, in terms of acquisition & storage.  With the exception of police & the odd thug (who will never follow laws anyway), NO ONE carries guns here.  Now I`m not trying to say that there is no crime in Canada, but shootings & armed robbery are not common.  We have no such thing as `gun free zones``...  The whole country is a gun free zone.  I have never feared for my life.

I`m not saying, but I`m just saying. 


Great.  How much time do you spend after dark on Yonge St in Toronto?  A gang-bangers knife will kill you just as dead, and using a knife for robbery is still armed robbery.

Even in Canada, thugs can have badges and uniforms (for example, the police officer who was throwing molotov cocktails at a firearms instructors' home in Port Colbourne).  Yet who was charged?  

Note:  In most decent countries, Arson is considered a capital crime and the use of deadly force to prevent it or stop a perpetrator is considered justifiable.

The fact that the case was eventually dismissed doesnt change the fact that the state wins even by just driving you into the poor house (no free defense in Canada) and in Canada the serfs lack the right to defend themselves - no matter what.  Not against criminals, and certainly not against the almighty government.  And anyone who has the temerity to disagree is not just wrong, but dangerously antisocial.

Yes, I'm a physician.  No, I'm not YOUR physician.  Nothing I say here is medical advice.

Do I treat Glocks like I treat my lawn mowers?  No, I treat them worse.  I treat my defensive weapons like my fire extinguishers and smoke detector - annual maintenance and I expect them to work when needed

Offline Flight-ER-Doc

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2012, 09:37:00 AM »

Gun Control, Hmph.    In Japan, it's seven years mandatory, for even possession, yet it's little ol' Switzerland, in which it's mandated that everyone in the military reserve have their military weapons at home, that has far, far less gun crimes than either Canada or Japan.

So you were saying?

BTW. since our Supreme Courts ruled that LEO's (Law Enforcement Officials) are not there for the protection of the people, but are there to enforce the laws of local government, whose there to protect us?  Don't forget, in some areas, it's an average of 3 hours for a response to a 911 call.  If I remember correctly, over 4 million crimes a year, are neutralized by armed citizens.

It took authorities more than 20 minutes to respond to the Newtown school, once calls were received.

Dial 9-1-1 and die!  When seconds count, the police are only 20 minutes away!

And last week a lunatic stabbed 20 or so kids in China.....
Yes, I'm a physician.  No, I'm not YOUR physician.  Nothing I say here is medical advice.

Do I treat Glocks like I treat my lawn mowers?  No, I treat them worse.  I treat my defensive weapons like my fire extinguishers and smoke detector - annual maintenance and I expect them to work when needed

Offline Flight-ER-Doc

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2012, 09:42:40 AM »
This has been bothering me for a while now and I doubt that I'll be able to get it into words adequately, but I'm gonna try anyway.

When are we going to come to the realization that we cannot hope to predict, let alone stop every random act of violence before somebody gets hurt?

Are we going to now lock up everyone who shows the slightest sign of being mentally, a little off? Or, drug them until they're so stupid all they can do is drool on their shirts? How many lives will be ruined for no good reason on account of this? And the bigger question is, who decides who is dangerous and who is not? The gov't? How long before just disagreeing with this person or panel/agency gets you a little trip to the rest home?

The real world has never been a safe place and it never will be. There are bad people out there. Some are openly bad and some turn bad at unpredictable times. The best we can do is realize and accept that sometimes all the precautions, security systems, locked doors, cameras, etc. just aren't enough and there may come a time we are going to be faced with the ultimate dilemma, the police aren't coming, either man up and defend yourself and those you care about, or die. We cannot hope to to prevail in these situations without being armed. We can't afford to stand a cop on every corner. We have to accept that ultimately our safety is our responsibility, prepare accordingly and not let some progressive bed-wetter make believe we will be safe in his "Gun Free Zone".

I agree.  Lets get rid of the entire idea of gun-free zones, let those responsible adults who desire to carry defensive weapons, and see what will happen.  We already have a three decade history of failure for 'gun free zones', and when armed citizens stop attackers they do so with far fewer deaths than happen when the authorities finally get around to it.

I am an adult. I expect nobody to look out for me, protect me, defend me, other than ME.  I neither expect, nor desire, some faceless collective to be my mother.  Especially when they have demonstrated such repeated failure at the task.
Yes, I'm a physician.  No, I'm not YOUR physician.  Nothing I say here is medical advice.

Do I treat Glocks like I treat my lawn mowers?  No, I treat them worse.  I treat my defensive weapons like my fire extinguishers and smoke detector - annual maintenance and I expect them to work when needed

Offline satantroll

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2012, 04:47:28 PM »
All good points raised by everyone.  I just have a different point of view.  I don't see the police as ineffective.  Plus, Toronto isn't such a scary place after dark...  There's a cop on almost every corner & I can walk down the street feeling relatively safe.  However...  I live in a much much smaller community.  I don't lock my house, I leave the keys in my truck...  Almost everyone here is like that.  Just a different mind-set.
There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

Offline Flight-ER-Doc

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2012, 09:10:42 AM »
According to this brit trash rag, the rate of violence in Canada is rather high - higher than in the US, by almost 2x:

Quote
The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents, Canada 935, Australia 92 and South Africa 1,609.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html


And if one were motivated by racial animus (or a scientific desire for truth) rather than political correctness, one might find that if certain ethnic groups are factored out of the figures for the UK, Canada, the US, and even South Africa, the violence rates go down quite substantially.  Of course, different groups, etc for Canada, the US, etc.

Yes, I'm a physician.  No, I'm not YOUR physician.  Nothing I say here is medical advice.

Do I treat Glocks like I treat my lawn mowers?  No, I treat them worse.  I treat my defensive weapons like my fire extinguishers and smoke detector - annual maintenance and I expect them to work when needed

Offline cd

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2012, 11:11:16 AM »
All good points raised by everyone.  I just have a different point of view.  I don't see the police as ineffective.  Plus, Toronto isn't such a scary place after dark...  There's a cop on almost every corner & I can walk down the street feeling relatively safe.  However...  I live in a much much smaller community.  I don't lock my house, I leave the keys in my truck...  Almost everyone here is like that.  Just a different mind-set.
^ Some might refer to that as "condition white." I'm just sayin... ;)

Offline Musket User

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2012, 03:26:24 PM »
Now the President wants more gun control? gee I already have to get uncle sams permission to buy a firearm what more can they do you ask. I smell a ban coming on.

Offline cd

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2012, 03:29:42 PM »
Now the President wants more gun control? gee I already have to get uncle sams permission to buy a firearm what more can they do you ask. I smell a ban coming on.
From everything I'm reading, there is a huge run on guns, ammo and mags right now. Prices are going up, CDT, Dicks, Walmart, others are eliminating some or all firearm sales. Insanity. Gun salesman of the year, he is.

Offline satantroll

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2012, 04:13:30 PM »
^ Some might refer to that as "condition white." I'm just sayin... ;)
I didn't say that I don't have guns.  & I'm certainly aware of the people & potential hazards around me.  I think right here is just a difference between American & Canadian thinking. 
There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.

Offline Ken

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2012, 06:10:12 PM »
I didn't say that I don't have guns.  & I'm certainly aware of the people & potential hazards around me.  I think right here is just a difference between American & Canadian thinking.

It's not exactly Canadian thinking, it's more Toronto thinking.......I've lots of friends in both Western Provinces and Eastern Provinces that would disagree with some of your opinions, but find that most of my friends that live in and near Toronto mostly agree with you.
“If mankind is to survive, then throughout man’s history except for a very few years the word “ship” will mean “space ship.”
Arthur C. Clarke

Offline Langenator

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2012, 08:10:53 PM »
I went looking for some extended (40 and 48 round) magazines (they're useful for 3-gun, too long for serious use) today.

At least at MidwayUSA, one of the biggest retailers out there, pretty much all of the better AR mags were sold out - MagPul P-mags, Lancers, and AR Stoners (formerly C Products).

From what I've read, that's not atypical.

.223/5.56 ammo has pretty much vanished, as well.
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
“In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
"We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815

Offline Bill Quick

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2012, 08:25:51 PM »
Hm...good thing I have a...well...bunch...of 5.56 squirreled away, then.
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

Offline ND Martin

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2012, 10:24:49 PM »
This whole Sandy Hook Massacre thing stinx.  The pols are lining up to impose serious gun control and the story keeps changing.  Check this out.

The gun-grabbing statists are gonna need a dismissive term to describe those of us who smell a very large rat in the Connecticut burbs...something like 'birthers' or 'truthers'...

Gunners?  Nah.  Doubters?  Spoilers?  Nah.  Liborers?  Lanzers?  Sandy Hookers?  Definitely not.  Maybe 'Seconders' for our support of the Second Amendment?  

Offline Bill Quick

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2012, 12:50:20 PM »
ND:  They'll go for the tried and true:

"Survivalist Terrorist Gun Nuts."

By the way, here's a good argument to the effect that they will not succeed:

http://anarchangel.blogspot.com/2012/12/stupidity-politics-and-math.html
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

Offline Langenator

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Re: Brit Trash Rag Blames Murdered Prepper Mom for Newtown Slaughter
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2012, 08:29:53 AM »
There was a Gallup poll out yesterday showing that more Americans favor letting school personnel have guns than favor any sort of ban.

But the Ministry of Propaganda MSM and the urban leftist Usual Suspects will do their usual thing.

I'd love to get Susanna Hupp out of the TX legislature and into Congress.  A floor debate between her and Carolyn McCarthy would be awesome.  (It'd be Hupp in a knockout in the first round, but still awesome.)
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
“In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
"We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815


 

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