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Author Topic: propane prices  (Read 1700 times)

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Offline cornopean

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propane prices
« on: November 23, 2012, 05:49:41 PM »
Before I move out to the country, I am trying to figure out what's going on with propane prices.  I know they are falling.  what is the forecast? 
I heat with natural gas now and it is VERY cheap.  my monthly bill never goes over 100 clams.  it comes close in Jan. Feb. March. 
As I understand it, with propane I will pay the same monthly price year around.  probably something around $2-300/month year around.  That is a HUGE increase in heating costs over what I have now.  Am I missing something?
I looked into one of these: http://www.centralboiler.com/models.php  probably three years before its paid for and I start seeing ROI.

thots?

Offline deanathpc

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Re: Re: propane prices
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2012, 03:12:27 PM »
Well I heat with heating oil.  Average?  That I don't know as it varies between $400-$600 a month depending on current price. Last mint was $3.69 a gallon.

I've read heating oil puts out more BTU's than propane.  I'm not sure what the current price propane was at last delivery (kitchen stove uses it).

Is your hot water heater on propane also?  Something to consider.  If this is a pre-existing install as the owners what they have been paying. Or ask the current supplier that question.  I've done that for electricity with every apartment I've moved into.  Also with the gas company.

Just my $0.02

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Offline Langenator

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Re: propane prices
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2012, 04:55:16 PM »
$400-600 a month?

Gad, and I thought my $300-325 a month summer A/C bill in TX was nasty...
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
“In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
"We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815

Offline Bill Quick

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Re: propane prices
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2012, 08:55:25 PM »
Natural gas is by far the cheapest heating source in America.  Well, at least until the current President manages to "fix" that "problem."   >:(
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

Offline Jishin

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Re: propane prices
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2012, 09:46:04 PM »
Holy cow.  :o there are a lot of bad things you can say about California, but MAN I'm so glad I don't have to pay the heating bills the rest of the country sees.

Our top electric bill this summer was $200, and that included the AC and everything else.

Offline ND Martin

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Re: propane prices
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2012, 01:48:24 AM »
This is why we heat our home with a very efficient woodstove.   About half of our supply for the winter came from last year's big October ice storm.  Hurricane Sandy provided a nice stack for next year.

Offline Amisheggpicker

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Re: propane prices
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2012, 05:59:06 AM »
agree on the wood stove....even if we pay for our wood...it's only about 400.00.
Proverbs 21:20  In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil,

but a foolish man devours all he has.

Offline Langenator

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Re: propane prices
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2012, 08:35:18 AM »
Around this part of TX...if you've got a chainsaw and a pickup, you'd never have to pay for firewood.  There's always one or two ads in the Free section of Craigslist. Just cut it and haul it away.
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
“In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
"We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815

Offline BooMushroom

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Re: propane prices
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2012, 09:59:07 AM »
Around this part of TX...if you've got a chainsaw and a pickup, you'd never have to pay for firewood.  There's always one or two ads in the Free section of Craigslist. Just cut it and haul it away.

Same thing here in Modesto... Except you have to have Big Brother's permission to build a fire if you have any other method of heating your home. There is actually a website and a phone number you have to check each day before you burn anything.

Offline deanathpc

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Re: Re: propane prices
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2012, 12:36:01 PM »
Well I haven't even mentioned the electric bill on top of the heating oil bill.  It sucks living in the northern us.  Dakotas I hear are colder!!!

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Offline ND Martin

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Re: propane prices
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2012, 02:30:42 PM »
There are limits to the use of wood as fuel.  Indeed, the history of mankind is a tale of deforestation.  One of the best discussions of the use of forest resources throughout history is A Forest Journey: The Story of Wood and Civilization by John Perlin. 

[Note to Bill: I think I modified the link properly so you can get the Amazon commission.  Check it out.]

Offline Bill Quick

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Re: propane prices
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2012, 09:36:35 PM »
Looks good, ND.  Thanks!
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

Offline Amisheggpicker

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Re: propane prices
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2012, 08:45:10 PM »
Good point nd...this is where responsible wood lot managment comes in....
we live in a forest...and every 10-12 years, we timber...but only what is called select cut....this is where only selected trees are cut....
this gives room for smaller trees to grow.  We have plenty of firewood to cut from the tree tops and branches that are left from the select cut.
 Many timber companies around here own land and manage their acreage this way.  But, because of the economy, the housing bubble, etc.  timber prices are way down....
we had are timber guy look at our trees this year, and what we normally would get $10,000 for will only bring $3,000.  I kid you not.  We did not sell this year....our timber guy is probably going to get out of the lumber business and go for the deep well gas....But even that adventure is bottoming out....not sure what is going on there.
Proverbs 21:20  In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil,

but a foolish man devours all he has.

Offline Bonnie

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Re: propane prices
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2012, 09:27:17 PM »
Amish - we do the same. We have only 20 acres so we've sold timber just once. But we get all our firewood by cutting all the dead & dying trees & thinning out.

Our neighbor inherited a bunch of acreage near us - our driveway goes through the property - and she decided to nearly clear cut. Right now it looks awful, but I think we're going to like seeing the sun more. Here the pay for timber is pretty good. It went way down a few years ago, but is going back up now. 
God bless,
Bonnie
Opportunity Farm
NE WA

"While we have the opportunity, let us do good to all." Galatians 6:10

BonniesBooks.net

Offline Amisheggpicker

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Re: propane prices
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2012, 07:27:21 AM »
I hope that is a sign of things to come, but it doesn't look very good here...many lumber business's have shut down....and a great deal of folks made a LOT of money selling their gas right to the Marcelles Shale. 
They were paying 3000.00 an acre for the rights...so you can imagine what the farmers who had several hundred acres made.
 We did not sell...nor did most of our neighbors.....only one guy did...and here is what happened to us...if we didn't sell....and the gas company came in....they could go under our land...something like eminent domain.....to procure the gas from the neighbors land  and our land, and they would have to pay us a very small pittance...because we didn't initially sign on.

So all of us whom have adjoining land, met with gas lawyers to get us signed on...our decision was based on the fact that they were going to get it anyways...so we might as well get some money out of it.....

And we waited and waited...nothing happened....then lo and behold...the lawyers called and told us that the gas companies have moved out of our area....they lawyers don't even know why...they heard different things....that the companies were out of money...(interesting, we are talking BIG well known companies here)

Were we disappointed....no...we didn't want to do it in the first place....we were being in a way forced...we could have refused, but they still would get the gas...they would have to pay to restore the land...but there are loop holes....I have a friend, who turned on his faucet and out came oily water....the neighboring landowner had drilled an oil well....but the friend was out of the "perimeter" to which extent that the oilwell driller had to fix the water problem.

I have heard and seen too many folks whom regretted that decision to sell...

No amount of money is worth loosing something so precious to you....I love my home
Proverbs 21:20  In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil,

but a foolish man devours all he has.

Offline Langenator

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Re: propane prices
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2012, 08:06:53 AM »
Our neighbor inherited a bunch of acreage near us - our driveway goes through the property - and she decided to nearly clear cut. Right now it looks awful, but I think we're going to like seeing the sun more. Here the pay for timber is pretty good. It went way down a few years ago, but is going back up now. 

If your neighbor doesn't hunt (and you do), from what I remember from living in WA, clear cuts can make for some good deer hunting.  Open for good shots, and the deer all the new growth is like a buffet for the deer.
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
“In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
"We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815

Offline cd

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Re: propane prices
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2012, 03:43:44 PM »
If your neighbor doesn't hunt (and you do), from what I remember from living in WA, clear cuts can make for some good deer hunting.  Open for good shots, and the deer all the new growth is like a buffet for the deer.
^Yup. Pardon the off-topic-ness, but deer are indeed "edge" animals. Transitional areas offer variety in food and cover, and as the clear cut grows over, the mix of food to cover will change. They are unlikely to spend quality time in the center of the clear cut unless it is quite late in the night. But they will chow down where a couple of bounds will put them back in the woods.

All else equal, absent more sign and scouting, putting your stands near the transition between them should be productive.

If I had sufficient woodlands, I would clear cut in 20-30ft wide strips and place tree stands on a high point that could look down those strips. (Not that would be a great from the perspective of the timber company, but it would be awesome for deer hunting.)

Offline Amisheggpicker

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Re: propane prices
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2012, 08:06:44 PM »
no one around here likes clear cutting...it destroys the beauty of the land....and takes a lot longer to recover...
Proverbs 21:20  In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil,

but a foolish man devours all he has.

Offline Bonnie

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Re: propane prices
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2012, 08:23:19 PM »
We don't hunt - mainly because I've never butchered anything larger than a rabbit. I did help with a pig, but I was at the wrapping table.  :)

I'm thinking of asking a friend who hunts if she'll let me help with the butchering next hunting season so I'll be able to do our own. Or when she butchers a goat. A bit smaller than a deer, but they are built on somewhat the same lines.

I'm not real happy about all those trees coming down, but what's done is done. I'm just hoping she doesn't decide to sell the property. We like our privacy, but much of it depends on the landowners around us.
God bless,
Bonnie
Opportunity Farm
NE WA

"While we have the opportunity, let us do good to all." Galatians 6:10

BonniesBooks.net

Offline razorbacker

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Re: propane prices
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2012, 10:49:24 AM »
Quote
As I understand it, with propane I will pay the same monthly price year around.

Your mileage may vary, but here the propane demand is much higher in the winter (thus higher prices) and much lower in the summer (thus lower prices).  The distributors will offer a chance to 'lock-in' the lower prices if you commit to buying 'X' amount.

That's what my daughter does.  She checked with the company and found out how much the former owner of the house had been buying, then locked in that amount at the lower summer propane price.

So far, so good.


Offline Langenator

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Re: propane prices
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2012, 03:31:16 PM »
I don't know if if propane companies do anything similar, but our local utility offers an 'averaging' on bills for customers who have had service for over a year. (This is necessary so they have numbers to work with.) 

This is done to give customers a more regular bill throughout the year, rather than big bills during the summer (running A/C) and much smaller ones in the winter.
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
“In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
"We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815

Offline ND Martin

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Re: propane prices
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2012, 07:25:19 PM »
Here's a couple of propane billing programs glommed at random:

Automatic Delivery &
 Budget Payment Plan

Most of our residential customers receive their fuel supply through an Automatic Delivery system. These deliveries are scheduled through computer technology, based upon each customer’s historical consumption patterns and prevailing weather conditions.

Additionally, we offer our customers a Budget Payment Plan whereby the customer’s estimated annual fuel purchases and service contracts are paid for in a series of estimated equal monthly payments over a twelve-month period.




Winter brings cold weather, holidays, family gatherings... and high propane bills! But with Stable Propane Pricing you pay a low monthly fixed rate all year long!




Offline AuricTech

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Re: propane prices
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2012, 08:23:08 PM »
The bill-averaging concept seems designed to prevent sticker-shock when winter comes.  While this is not completely awful, I suspect that the bill-averaging is done in such a way that the propane vendor profits more than it would by selling propane at seasonal prices*.  Were I a household propane user, I would prefer to expand my propane storage capacity to the point that I could ride out the winter on propane I bought at summer prices.

Of course, as a hypothetical propane user, I would actually prefer to expand my propane storage capacity to the point that I could ride out times when no propane could be delivered at any price, at least for a couple of years.  More prepping time equals more storage capacity....  8)

* While making a profit is good, I would rather minimize my costs by buying low and using high.  That way, both the seller and I benefit....
American parachutists...devils in baggy pants...are less than 100 meters from my outpost line. I can't sleep at night; they pop up from nowhere and we never know when or how they will strike next. Seems like the black-hearted devils are everywhere....


 

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