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Author Topic: First Handgun Guidance  (Read 1995 times)

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Offline Langenator

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Re: First Handgun Guidance
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2012, 11:56:23 AM »
Well, me too, not least in part because the 870 has an attached light, which none of my pistols do.
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
“In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
"We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815

Offline Bill Quick

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Re: First Handgun Guidance
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2012, 02:52:11 PM »
Exactly.  Just think of your 870 as a very large flashlight, (or a very large handgun) and you're good to go! ;D
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone


Offline cd

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Re: First Handgun Guidance
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2012, 04:05:56 PM »
Well, me too, not least in part because the 870 has an attached light, which none of my pistols do.
I did spend the extra $10 to get a Gen 3, so I've got the rail for a light if I want to go there...

Offline Langenator

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Re: First Handgun Guidance
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2012, 05:37:00 PM »
Yeah, my next pistol (either and M&P or CZ SP-01) will definitely have a built in rail.  I've already got a light.
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
“In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
"We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815

Offline Bill Quick

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Re: First Handgun Guidance
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2012, 07:46:29 PM »
My next .45 will have a rail, or be able to take some other form of Crimson Trace laser sight.  I love the one I put on my .357.
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

Offline bloc

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Re: First Handgun Guidance
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2012, 09:19:04 PM »

[ . . . ]

Again, it boils down to how you view your own situation.  In general, though, I'd go for ruggedness, easily obtained ammo, and ease of maintenance, coupled with the most power that I'm comfortable and effective with.

What he said. 

Ruggedness is crucial, and the most powerful caliber you feel comfortable with is no less important.  Ease of maintenance is a distinct advantage, though for me not a deal killer.  I'd quibble only over ammo availability:  Just buy a few hundred rounds and store them (a hundred rounds per month, for x-months) and practice only with some of the newly-purchased ammo.  Or, if you can afford the initial outlay, reload your own ammo.

Having said that, I love reading about all the technical advantages of one firearm type over another (e.g. rifle vs shotgun,  shotgun vs handgun, auto vs revolver) or one caliber over another (e.g. 9mm vs .45 ACP), which accessories are musts and which are merely useful and etc.  In fact, I've laid out more than a thousand dollars based on just such web-talk.

But first things first. You need to decide how your gun will be used:  WRT preparation . . . is it to be carried to the grocery store?  Is the gun intended to be used to defend the home from a home invasion (and if so, do you want to guard against a 1 person or 5 person invasion?).  Is over-penetration an issue?

Where is your home located?  Mine is situated on a knob with great visibility in all directions.  I'm much less concerned with an assault by dead-enders than with a home invasion.  So I have a fair number of handguns scattered around the house.  And I carry a .380 at all times.

Are you most worried about TEOTWAWKI?  If so, consider an AR-15 or AK-47 type rifle, with many loaded magazines right at hand.

Irrespective of your decision tree, the bottom line is this:  you must practice.  And then, practice some more. 

Practice with a lesser caliber (.22 RF rather than, for example, a 9mm or .45 ACP) is useful.  (I bought my wife a heavy S&W .22 revolver so she could refine her trigger control and perfect her sight picture.  She carries a S&W J-frame, .357 Mag.)

But practice with the gun you count on to save your life or the life of your loved ones is beyond useful.  It is critical.

Offline Captain Morgan

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Re: First Handgun Guidance
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2012, 08:17:34 PM »
If you have not owned and been around handguns. I would say a .22 revolver in DA or a semi auto.
  Startoff with a handgun that wont have much recoil and you wont flinch. Practice with a .22 then step up to a bigger handgun.
Just my thoughts. And a handgun IMHO is about the worst gun you can pick for home defense a Shotgun or even a AR type rifle are much better choices. Again just my thoughts

Offline Bill Quick

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Re: First Handgun Guidance
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2012, 09:20:51 PM »
And a handgun IMHO is about the worst gun you can pick for home defense a Shotgun....much better choice...
You are about to get a huge welcome from a regular named cd...  ;D
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

Offline bloc

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Re: First Handgun Guidance
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2012, 09:51:29 PM »
If you have not owned and been around handguns. I would say a .22 revolver in DA or a semi auto.

Startoff with a handgun that wont have much recoil and you wont flinch. Practice with a .22 then step up to a bigger handgun.
Just my thoughts.

Agreed.  Start with a .22, but if the student flourishes, don't hesitate to move to a larger caliber sooner rather than later.   

I'd argue that practicing with mild loads in a CF handgun builds confidence very quickly:  If fired in a heavy frame gun (K, L or N frame Smith, Ruger SP101 or GP100, etc), garden variety .38 Spl. loads don't recoil much and aren't that intimidating or likely to cause flinching.

And if you're a hand loader, you can create mild loads for a 9mm or even a .45 that makes either very easy to shoot.

Quote
And a handgun IMHO is about the worst gun you can pick for home defense a Shotgun or even a AR type rifle are much better choices. Again just my thoughts

I'm aware that there's a substantial body of opinion that a shotgun is the way to go for home defense, but I'm not there yet.  My current opinion is that a shotgun may be best if over-penetration is an issue, but otherwise is less desirable than a handgun. 

But I'm wide open to other opinions, and I'd love to hear any thoughts to the contrary (worse case, we can agree to disagree).

I agree about the AR or even AK, especially if over-penetration isn't a factor.  To me, the sheer volume of fire you can lay down is a distinct advantage.

Offline Bill Quick

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Re: First Handgun Guidance
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2012, 10:04:30 PM »
Quote
To me, the sheer volume of fire you can lay down
Unless you live in California and don't have any grandfathered big mags.

I'm still trying to find out if I can legally buy, say, 30 round magazines plugged to take only 10 (the Cali limit), but with the ability to easily remove the plugs if the SHTF and it suddenly no longer matters a lot what the Cali gun laws happen to be.
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

Offline cd

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Re: First Handgun Guidance
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2012, 11:44:14 PM »
And a handgun IMHO is about the worst gun you can pick for home defense a Shotgun....much better choice...
You are about to get a huge welcome from a regular named cd...  ;D
What can I say? The guy has impeccable taste. :D

Quote from: block
...
My current opinion is that a shotgun may be best if over-penetration is an issue, but otherwise is less desirable than a handgun. 
...
^ He's baiting me, isn't he? ;D

Offline Langenator

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Re: First Handgun Guidance
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2012, 08:36:00 AM »
Unless you're shooting birdshot or frangible ammo, over penetration is going to be a potential problem in the vast majority of residential structures in the US.  In my entire adult life, I think the only buildings I've lived in where over penetration wouldn't have been an issue were in Germany.

What's best for you will be highly dependant on your situation.
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
“In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
"We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815

Offline Flight-ER-Doc

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Re: First Handgun Guidance
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2012, 09:25:51 AM »
Empirical ammunition penetration testing:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm


Yes, I'm a physician.  No, I'm not YOUR physician.  Nothing I say here is medical advice.

Do I treat Glocks like I treat my lawn mowers?  No, I treat them worse.  I treat my defensive weapons like my fire extinguishers and smoke detector - annual maintenance and I expect them to work when needed

Offline Captain Morgan

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Re: First Handgun Guidance
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2012, 01:15:49 PM »
I have shot many a box of shotgun shells to see about penitration. Set up a sheet of drywall and fire away. Or paneling over dry wall. With low brass shells you dont have to worry about killing the guy next door.
 In my bed room riot gun I keep #6 high brass game loads. I intend for almost if not all the pellets to be lodged in the bad guys chest, not shooting holes in my walls. LOL
  And I will put a good shotgun up against a pistol anyday. Sure there are times a hangun is great, easy to carry and conceal and rapid deployment. But for me and mine you gotta get thru 7 12 gauge shells before I break out the Springfield .45 pistol.
  Again as will all my comments this is my opinion only.  To each ther own, practice with and use the firearm you fell the best and safest with.
...Captain Morgan...

Offline Musket User

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Re: First Handgun Guidance
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2012, 12:36:44 PM »
I have shot a lot of handguns and I believe their purpose is 1: concealed carry 2: to fight your way back to the long gun you never should have put down to begin with. having said that My 1911's have been problematic at best, the one glock I owned was nice but didn't fit me well enough. I own two Hi-points in .45 auto both work flawlessly and I carry one as EDC. Since I cannot carry my wallet in my hip pocket I rigged my messenger bag to take a holster.
 My first choice in a handgun for SHTF is a .357 magnum. yes I am a revolver guy.

Offline bloc

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Re: First Handgun Guidance
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2012, 09:31:44 PM »
So how many shotguns do you (plural) have, and where do you keep them?

Offline cd

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Re: First Handgun Guidance
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2012, 10:37:51 PM »
Several. ;D (Apologies in advance for the thread drift...)

But the 870 would be my go-to, and it resides in the bedroom in an undisclosed location.

FWIW, I'm not really a shotgun guy by inclination. My preference, in terms of hunting and shooting is far and away rifles, then handguns. (The latter for shooting, not so much hunting. I've shot two deer with handguns, neither I nor the deer involved were much impressed, and I gave up the handgun hunting. But I still very much enjoy shooting them.)

As to shot gunning, I'm OK with going out shooting trap or sporting clays once to three times a year. I just don't get my jollies shooting shotguns. But, if I had to bag at least small game (as oppose to sport hunt small game with rifles), or defend my home, the 870 would be far and away my first choice.

And, if I knew my home was going to be invaded by armed assailants, my preference would be that they carrying handguns and that I had my 870 and I sure would hate for those to be reversed.

Offline Langenator

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Re: First Handgun Guidance
« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2012, 08:18:08 AM »
Having kids, my pistol is my 'go to' gun for BG in the house type situations, for the simple reason that it can be used one-handed while carrying/dragging/grabbing a kid with the other.

Plus the fact that the pistol fits in the nightstand drawer, in a pistol safe away from little hands.

Shotgun (870 with a Surefire forestock light) lives on a high shelf in the closet.

Now, my last house in NC, where all the bedrooms were upstairs - something goes bump in the night downstairs, shotgun is the first thing, because I don't have to retrieve kids.
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
“In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
"We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815

Offline bloc

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Re: First Handgun Guidance
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2012, 12:18:42 PM »
I partly take the point about depending on a shotgun when upstairs.  It makes most sense to me if we assume that an intruder (or intruders) makes his presence known while he's downstairs and you upstairs.  Then, you might well have time to react and your stairwell would channel intruders to your advantage.

But I'd argue that if an intruder makes it to the second floor, the advantage of a shotgun might be less than otherwise.

Although our bedroom is on the ground floor of our house, we spend a fair amount of time upstairs, and it makes sense for us to keep a long gun there (I'm going for an AR-15 . . . over-penetration isn't a very big concern for me).

But on the ground floor, we have easy access to a handgun in every room where we spend much time.  (I suppose in theory we could have shotguns, but that just seems awfully cumbersome:  I wouldn't know where to place them to keep them from being under foot . . . you can't just tuck one into a drawer.)

Our kids are grown and gone, so explorative children aren't a problem except when the grand kids show up (once a year, perhaps).  Then, we take precautions.

Two additional points:  In general, I agree that "over penetration" is to be avoided. 

But what would be "over penetration" and a liability in one context might well be an advantage in another:  People have successfully defended themselves from a determined intruder who ignored warnings (meth, jealous rage, etc.) by firing a bullet through a door. 

Shooting through a door at an unseen target would not be my first preference, but I can imagine a situation where I might do so myself.

Finally, the Sheriff's Office of our very large, poor and rural county had it's budget cut to the bone and there just aren't deputies available to respond to emergencies (911 calls are routed to the state police, and heaven knows how long it will take a trooper to respond). 

Given the size of the county, the kinds of drug things that are going on and the almost complete lack of law enforcement personnel, we need to be especially alert to our own defense.   

JFWIW

 

Offline cd

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Re: First Handgun Guidance
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2012, 10:59:00 PM »
Admittedly a tad off topic, but these are impressive slow motion videos I ran across at The Firearm Blog:

Slugs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ftrCtOyLrmU

Buckshot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QLun92bR4BA


 

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