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Author Topic: good reason for CC  (Read 1179 times)

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Offline Bonnie

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good reason for CC
« on: November 05, 2012, 02:00:38 PM »
A woman I know about (friend of a friend) always has a gun on her person - tho the mutual friend says she couldn't hit the traditional broadside of a barn. (He can be pretty snarky so I think she's a better shot than that.) But you don't always have to shoot the gun for it to be effective.

Dawn was at a large store when a flasher exposed himself to her. She promptly "flashed" her weapon.  ;D
She said he looked very frightened and ran very fast.

It's possible he may think twice - even thrice - before exposing himself again.


God bless,
Bonnie
Opportunity Farm
NE WA

"While we have the opportunity, let us do good to all." Galatians 6:10

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Online Langenator

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Re: good reason for CC
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2012, 02:11:09 PM »
Don't know the laws of the state she lives in, but in TX you could be arrested and charged with brandishing a firearm.

Uncovering a concealed weapon is considered brandishing, and under TX law is only justified under the same circumstances as the use of force.  No matter how unpleasant having someone expose themselves may be, it most assuredly does not meet the "threat of death or great bodily harm" standard for the use of force.
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
“In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
"We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815


Offline Suburban

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Re: good reason for CC
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2012, 02:54:41 PM »
Don't know the laws of the state she lives in, but in TX you could be arrested and charged with brandishing a firearm.

Uncovering a concealed weapon is considered brandishing, and under TX law is only justified under the same circumstances as the use of force.  No matter how unpleasant having someone expose themselves may be, it most assuredly does not meet the "threat of death or great bodily harm" standard for the use of force.

All very true, but ladies often get away with things that would land a guy in jail.  However, I would not want my wife to take the risk.  Unless you can justify using the gun, you can't justify pulling it out.

Offline Bonnie

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Re: good reason for CC
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2012, 03:48:04 PM »
Anyone know the law here in Washington?
God bless,
Bonnie
Opportunity Farm
NE WA

"While we have the opportunity, let us do good to all." Galatians 6:10

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Offline Amisheggpicker

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Re: good reason for CC
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2012, 04:36:18 PM »
This is what the law is in Washington State on brandishing a firearm

(my job entitles dealing with the laws of individual states and those whom break them... especially CALIFORNIA laws...hahahahah!)


RCW 9.41.270

Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm — Unlawful carrying or handling — Penalty — Exceptions.
 



(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

     (2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license.

     (3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following:

     (a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business;

     (b) Any person who by virtue of his or her office or public employment is vested by law with a duty to preserve public safety, maintain public order, or to make arrests for offenses, while in the performance of such duty;

     (c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person;

     (d) Any person making or assisting in making a lawful arrest for the commission of a felony; or

     (e) Any person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments.



[1994 sp.s. c 7 § 426; 1969 c 8 § 1.]


Notes:



     Finding -- Intent -- Severability -- 1994 sp.s. c 7: See notes following RCW 43.70.540.

     Effective date -- 1994 sp.s. c 7 §§ 401-410, 413-416, 418-437, and 439-460: See note following RCW 9.41.010.
 

Proverbs 21:20  In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil,

but a foolish man devours all he has.

Offline Bonnie

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Re: good reason for CC
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2012, 05:16:39 PM »
 
Quote
(c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person;

It would have been a stretch, but she could have called it self defense. Good thing there were no witnesses. But if there had been, someone might have called the cops on the flasher.

Years ago I was confronted by a man who exposed himself to me while masturbating. Since I had been nearly killed during an attempted rape some years before, I was terrified. It didn't help that I was holding my baby at the time. I just ran & locked myself in my apartment before calling authorities.

So I think I would call it self defense. I wonder how the law would interpret feeling threatened.
God bless,
Bonnie
Opportunity Farm
NE WA

"While we have the opportunity, let us do good to all." Galatians 6:10

BonniesBooks.net

Offline AuricTech

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Re: good reason for CC
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2012, 07:34:07 PM »
The obvious solution to "unlawful brandishing" issues is for lawful open carry to spread throughout the land....  8)
American parachutists...devils in baggy pants...are less than 100 meters from my outpost line. I can't sleep at night; they pop up from nowhere and we never know when or how they will strike next. Seems like the black-hearted devils are everywhere....

Offline pslblog

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Re: good reason for CC
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2012, 12:08:32 AM »

It would have been a stretch, but she could have called it self defense. Good thing there were no witnesses. But if there had been, someone might have called the cops on the flasher.

Years ago I was confronted by a man who exposed himself to me while masturbating. Since I had been nearly killed during an attempted rape some years before, I was terrified. It didn't help that I was holding my baby at the time. I just ran & locked myself in my apartment before calling authorities.

So I think I would call it self defense. I wonder how the law would interpret feeling threatened.

Sexual assault is unlawful force by definition, and all the psychobabble in the world won't make a jury think a flasher is entitled to shielding from the horrible sight of a naked firearm wielded by their victim. Assuming that a woman assaulted by a sexual deviant has full knowledge of their assailant's perversion and relative harmlessness would be a difficult day's work for a San Francisco prosecutor. I suspect any Texas prosecutor who tried to pin offense on a woman defending herself would want to find a new job someplace, far, far away.

Online Langenator

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Re: good reason for CC
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2012, 09:12:58 AM »
But how much is it going to cost you in lawyer fees, etc to convince a jury that you were justified?
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
“In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
"We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815

Offline Amisheggpicker

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Re: good reason for CC
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2012, 10:49:52 AM »
Flashing is considered a sexual assault (this includes mooning, make sure your teens know this)  And you can be arrested for this.  BUT, it is a very slippery slope in determining whether a person was threatened or not.  It would all depend on the circumstances.  Did the perp lunge at the victim, make physical contact?  make verbal threats?  etc.   I am not a police officer, nor a lawyer...nor a judge...the best bet in a case where someone flashes you is to report it to the authorities..

If someone came at me or my children/grandchildren, you better believe I would fight to the death against that person, using ANY weapon I could find....  Women, take self defense classes...learn how to avoid situations and how to defend yourself.

If you work with mentally ill patients like I once did, you will get sexually assaulted alot....and you can press charges....but they are just going to be deemed mentally ill, and we already know they are mentally ill...and they will just be incarcerated back into the mental facility. So you would just end up paying out a lot of money for nothing...by the way....mentally ill patients whom are sexual deviates or whom display sexual behaviors are often given "shots" to curb this behavior.  But self gratification (I'm trying to be nice here, hahaha!) done in the confines of their bed with the curtain pulled...is their RIGHT...and it is not considered a behavior.  If you walk in on them...then that's considered YOUR problem...hahahah!   Trust me, I have seen it all....

Here are some degrees of sexual assault taken from a police agency's website.

 What is a sexual assault?


Sexual assaults can involve a variety of different sexual activity.  The following is a list of some of the more common types of sexual offenses that we investigate:
Statutory Rape:  Sexual penetration involving one or more people who are under the age of 16.  In Massachusetts the age of consent is 16 and therefore anyone under that age cannot consent to sexual intercourse. 
Forcible Rape:  Any penetrative sexual contact of any orifice (mouth, anus or vagina) by any object (penis, fingers or foreign object) by another person without the consent of the victim.
Indecent Assault and Battery on a Person Under Age 14:  This involves the sexual touching of a person under the age of 14 years old.  Sexual touching may include contact with the victim's buttocks, genital area, breasts, inner thigh or stomach.
Indecent Assault and Battery on a Person 14 or Over:  This involves the sexual touching of a person who is 14 or over when that touching is non-consensual.  Sexual touching may include contact with the victim’s buttocks, genital area, breasts, inner thigh or stomach.
Open and Gross:  This involves the performing a sexual act in such a way as to evoke fear in the viewer.  This crime is most often associated with public masturbation.
Indecent Exposure:  This involves the exposure of sexual parts (genitals or breasts) to the public.  This crime of most often associated with “flashing,” public urination or “mooning.”
Anyone who attempts to commit any of the preceding acts could be charged with the attempt. 
The gender of those involved is not considered, as sexual assaults can be committed by anyone and on any victim.

Proverbs 21:20  In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil,

but a foolish man devours all he has.

Offline Bill Quick

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Re: good reason for CC
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2012, 11:17:25 AM »
Frankly, this is another nest of laws that needs to be cleaned out in order to  come into compliance with the RKBA guaranteed by the Second Amendment.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 10:06:30 PM by Bill Quick »
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

Offline Bonnie

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Re: good reason for CC
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2012, 04:52:01 PM »

Forcible Rape:  Any penetrative sexual contact of any orifice (mouth, anus or vagina) by any object (penis, fingers or foreign object) by another person without the consent of the victim.

I think the laws have changed over the years. This was called "only" attempted rape & sodomy when it was done to me. I think he got 3 years. For some reason his nearly killing me wasn't called attempted murder.  ???

Quote
Open and Gross:  This involves the performing a sexual act in such a way as to evoke fear in the viewer.  This crime is most often associated with public masturbation.

I wish I had been more forceful about prosecuting the pos. His sister was an acquaintance so everyone was telling me it would hurt the family to press charges & he promised to get counseling. No one offered me counseling!  >:(

As you can probably tell, I'm still pretty angry about both incidents. They are things one never forgets, as much as one would wish to.


God bless,
Bonnie
Opportunity Farm
NE WA

"While we have the opportunity, let us do good to all." Galatians 6:10

BonniesBooks.net

Offline pslblog

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Re: good reason for CC
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2012, 02:43:13 PM »
I think the laws have changed over the years. This was called "only" attempted rape & sodomy when it was done to me. I think he got 3 years. For some reason his nearly killing me wasn't called attempted murder.  ???
I wish I had been more forceful about prosecuting the pos. His sister was an acquaintance so everyone was telling me it would hurt the family to press charges & he promised to get counseling. No one offered me counseling!  >:(
As you can probably tell, I'm still pretty angry about both incidents. They are things one never forgets, as much as one would wish to.
It would be interesting to crowdsource a legal defense fund that would hold itself in readiness, in your state, to drop the hammer of doom periodically on malefactors to establish beneficial precedents for concealed carriers. When the malefactor hires a shyster to sue you, or the DA decides to abet the malefactors, the best lawyers available in the state arrive like the legions of the damned to obliterate the case and establish precedent in favor of armed civilization. I'd certainly pay $10 a month for that lottery benefit.

Eventually, the fill-in-the-blank warning letter would scare off the malefactor's attorneys. Part of our problem has been our scattered defense being susceptible to ambulance chaser's advantage. It would be nice if we could get the NRA to back this play, promoting and providing backing for small population states. 

Offline awsten

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Re: good reason for CC
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2012, 03:25:14 PM »
Good luck finding any DA in the country that would prosecute a woman for defending herself from a pervert by brandishing a lawfully carried firearm...

Offline Les Nessman

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Re: good reason for CC
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2012, 03:40:01 PM »
awsten, I could easily see a DA doing just that in NYC, Chicago...any number of places, really. I think I remember seeing reports of it already happening over the years, actually.

Online Langenator

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Re: good reason for CC
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2012, 04:21:45 PM »
Heck, in Florida you can, in theory, be prosecuted if your legal CC pistol gets uncovered by the wind blowing your jacket/shirt/vest whatever open.
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
“In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
"We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815

Offline pslblog

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Re: good reason for CC
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2012, 04:26:03 PM »
Heck, in Florida you can, in theory, be prosecuted if your legal CC pistol gets uncovered by the wind blowing your jacket/shirt/vest whatever open.
And I'd like that kind of law to get demolished.

Offline Amisheggpicker

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Re: good reason for CC
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2012, 07:55:52 PM »
Our world has gone crazy....you could get arrested for brandishing a firearm at a flasher, yet the TSA can grab our private parts.

And this just happened to my 5 year old grandson whom just started kindergarden in September.  On the second week of school, he wore a pair of blue jeans to school.  He was not used to wearing pants with a zipper and a button.  (He always wore the pull up sweat pants that little kids wear)  He went to the bathroom and when he came out, the teacher saw that he was having trouble zipping and buttoning his pants.  Later in the day, he had the same problem, and the teachers aide decided that he was going to pull his pants down.  So she took him down to the office....she stated that he was going to pull his pants down, but she had stopped him.  My grandson said he was trying to fix his pants, not pull them down. (keep in mind that the TEACHER said he was having trouble earlier with his pants)

The principal wrote him up stating that he DID pull his pants down. Even though the teacher said he was having trouble and the aide said that she thought he was going to pull them down, but she stopped him.  This child has NeVEr exhibited any kind of behavior like what was being suggested.
 The child had to do an in school detention....and they wanted him to meet with a behavioral team and the school psychiatrist!  The story gets much messier and is too long to type, but the parents fought the school to get that erased from his record and pulled him out and he is now going to a private school....and flourishing I might add!

I don't know what this world is coming to...when wrong is wright, and wright is wrong.  And little  5 year old boys can't struggle with a zipper and button without being sent to a psychiatrist!
Proverbs 21:20  In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil,

but a foolish man devours all he has.

Offline Suburban

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Re: good reason for CC
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2012, 03:51:32 PM »
Heck, in Florida you can, in theory, be prosecuted if your legal CC pistol gets uncovered by the wind blowing your jacket/shirt/vest whatever open.

When I lived in Connecticut you could lose your CC permit if you carried the firearm "in an alarming manner".  The courts decided that meant if anyone ever caught a glimpse of your handgun you would lose both the gun and the permit.  Bear in mind you needed a CC permit to lawfully take your handgun to the range.  The only thing you could do with a handgun without a CC permit was take it home from the store, or take it to a store to sell it to them.  Everything else required a permit.  Fortunately at least when I lived there it was not all that difficult to get a permit.

Offline Cajun Napalm

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Re: good reason for CC
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2012, 08:30:44 PM »
In TN, we have handgun permits...doesn't matter if your pea shooter is covered or not...it avoids all those messy trials and such...

Online Langenator

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Re: good reason for CC
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2012, 10:15:03 PM »
WA allows open carry, loaded, even, as long as you're not in a vehicle.  (Carrying a loaded firearm is allowed in an open vehicle if you have a CPL.)

In TX, oddly, open carry for handguns is not allowed.  Long guns, however, are allowed.

Not sure how WA ended up with friendlier gun laws than TX, but they are.

Hopefully TX can pass campus carry this time around.  From what I hear, they had the votes last time, but a state senator from San Antonio or Austin doomed it with some form of parliamentary maneuver.  (TX legislature only meets immediately following an election, as far as I can tell.  If a bill doesn't pass, you have to wait two years for another chance.)
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
“In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
"We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815


 

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