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Author Topic: Real Ambush Video & Comments  (Read 3267 times)

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Offline max velocity

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Real Ambush Video & Comments
« on: July 19, 2012, 10:11:11 AM »
I am posting this video because it illustrates a lot of points. I remember this happening back when I was working in Baghdad, and I saw the after action review at the time. My intent is not to criticize the actions of the team, but to make constructive comments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-fjrRB7WPQ

It is my understanding that this team was not well knitted and had not really been trained or rehearsed together in drills. They were heading from the Green Zone to the Airport (BIAP) along Route Irish, which is the BIAP road and extremely high threat. They had been forced to stop in the road because a US route clearance team was clearing an IED ahead of them, and behind them was the mass of Iraqi traffic that they had flagged and warned off to stay 100 meters away. They had adopted the staggered formation and were just discussing on the radio (the audio is very important on the clip) the idea of backing up and getting out of there because they were so exposed. At that point they were engaged with small arms fire from buildings about 100 meters to the side of the road to the right of the camera. The enemy was possibly two machine gunners with PKMs, which are the Soviet Bloc equivalent of an M60 or 240B, firing 7.62 x 51mm rounds (or .308 civilian equivalents).

The team does not appear to have any consolidated or rehearsed drills, with various members doing different things. Note the one who reacts by moving away from the vehicles into the cover of the median to the left, while others take cover behind the vehicles. I believe that only one of the vehicles was armored, the center one. Apparently they thought that at least one of their vehicles was immobilized on the “X” (kill zone), but it appears that one of the drivers may have placed the vehicle in neutral, got no response when he hit the gas, and thought his car was immobilized. This is a reaction due to adrenalin and tunnel vision in such a situation. The armor of the center vehicle may be why the passenger on the right of the center vehicle opens the door to return fire, thinks better of it, and closes it again.

You can hear on the audio that driver of the camera car is hit in the femoral and he actually bleeds out and dies. This could potentially have been prevented by the use of a tourniquet “high and tight”. He is at one point dragged out of the car by the guy you can see at the camera vehicle. The camera is knocked off aim and you can hear the US Army troops who have arrived to assist talking and asking about a white car that has pulled forward from the Iraqi traffic to the rear.

Unfortunately, they sat out in the open for too long and were engaged with a small arms fire ambush. Their vehicles were not actually immobilized but some of them thought they were, and others perhaps because they were static reacted by getting out and returning fire. So they did not conduct vehicle break contact drills and they remained on the X. Once dismounted, with the exception of the one guy who moves right to left off to  the median, they stay in place, perhaps waiting for the support of the US Army (one guy waves to them from the center vehicle). They do have casualties and tend to them beside the vehicle rather than breaking contact and dragging and carrying the casualties away into better cover. There are many things that they could have done, but without being a rehearsed and tight knit team that were not coordinated enough to do them at that time. Luckily, military support was close by. Given that their vehicles were not immobilized they would have been better mounting up and extracting, getting the casualties to the hospital as soon as possible.

The video gives some idea of the effect and sound of a small arms ambush into a roadway and vehicles.

Offline Amisheggpicker

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Re: Real Ambush Video & Comments
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2012, 08:53:48 PM »
Max...this isn't meant to be critical...I'm just telling you why I won't look at this...

After reading the description that you wrote, I'm sorry, but I can't listen to it.  I have a son in the Marines, whom also has served in Iraq.  His unit was hit by roadsides bombs...his vehicle was hit, but the vehicle in front of him took a direct hit.  I don't know everything, because my son doesn't talk much about this, but he watched a soldier catch on fire and die...

He saw many other incidents, but we don't really discuss them either.  I sent in a boy, and a different man came home....(I'm sure this is how it happens with all soldiers)  We also had a friend of the family die by throwing himself over a grenade to protect his fellow soldiers.  He was awarded the medal of honor (Ross McGinnis)

To listen to an audio, knowing that the soldier is hit and will die, is a little more than I can deal with..I know I like apocalyptic movies and such...but those are not real.  I know that I am sticking my head in the sand, but when you have a son or daughter whom deals with the "real" stuff on a daily basis...then you don't want to listen to someone being hit and dying....it makes the reality of what could happen a little closer to home.

I'm sure there are lessons to learn, but I think I would like to learn them in a different way....besides, I can't imagine the pain this would bring to the mother of that soldier...God forbid that anything should happen to my son, but if something did, I sure wouldn't want it played on the net..

Max, this is just me, a woman, wife and mother...we tend to be the sappy emotional ones, and others may not feel this way...

May God bless each and every one of those of you whom are in the service or whom have served !
Proverbs 21:20  In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil,

but a foolish man devours all he has.


Offline max velocity

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Re: Real Ambush Video & Comments
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2012, 08:08:12 AM »
Amisheggpicker:

I respect your opinion and understand your reasoning. Perhaps I am also a little too hardened to it. I know that I had the video on my computer and my wife looked over at it and said it was very disturbing.

I have a purpose. Like other soldiers, marines, contractors and the like, I have been over there. I have seen it. I worry about what will happen here post-Collapse, even to loving mothers like you.

So, I want to open peoples eyes, do a little "battle inoculation" and prepare people. It is possible that if he was with you in a collapse, you son or perhaps veteran husband or whoever, may take the burden of family protection. I believe that everyone needs to share this burden and be aware, and able to defend their loved ones like a lioness if necessary.

That is why I wrote the book that I adverise in my signature - to bring this subject to normal peoples attention. The military and veteran types may be more inclined to read it, but those without tactical experience should also. Its not all about gunfights!

Offline Langenator

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Re: Real Ambush Video & Comments
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2012, 01:13:07 PM »
As someone who helped trained NG troops bound for Iraq on conducting convoy operations, I wish I'd had that video as a good example of what not to do.

When was that video shot? Just from the vehicles the contractors are using, I'm guessing very early, 2004 or so.

Fortuna Fortis Paratus
“In the house of a wise man are stores of food, wine, and oil, but the foolish man devours all he has.” Proverbs 21:20
"We are content with discord, we are content with alarms, we are content with blood, but we will never be content with a master." -Pashtun malik, 1815

Offline cd

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Re: Real Ambush Video & Comments
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2012, 03:12:27 PM »
I watched part of it.

I'm sure there are valuable lessons there for those in or affiliated with the military. Or perhaps those in a larger MAG or something comparable.

I guess I'm not a good prospect for the book, I just can't relate.

It seems to me that if we're in a post collapse environment and I found myself in a convoy subject to ambush ... well, means that my preps failed.

I realize that you military folk get ordered to go out in such, but you also have supplemental backup. I won't be subject to the first, nor have the (relative) luxury of the latter.

I hope to maintain a very grey, uninteresting, largely self-sufficient existence off the beaten path. Scavenging, which makes for great drama in JDY stories (which I do appreciate btw), is not something I envision doing. I don't want drama. If it comes to me, that's a separate story, but it seems to me personally, rather than focusing on tactics to deal with ambush, I should very much wish to focus on tactics to altogether avoid the need for travel under such conditions.

Naturally, IANAO (Operator), and YMMV.  ;)

Offline max velocity

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Re: Real Ambush Video & Comments
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2012, 09:40:13 PM »
As someone who helped trained NG troops bound for Iraq on conducting convoy operations, I wish I'd had that video as a good example of what not to do.

When was that video shot? Just from the vehicles the contractors are using, I'm guessing very early, 2004 or so.



I think it was late 2004 or 2005. You are right about it being how not to do it. It waa  pretty (in)famous incident at the time.

CD: your approach and tactics are spot on. My main message is AVOIDANCE, followed by mitigation, followed by being able to react approproatiely if it does happen to you. I have written a lot about denial and the freeze reponse. Denial is a big killer in contact situations. Avoid if at all possible, but be ready and aware of the possibility that it may happen to you....


 

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