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Author Topic: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?  (Read 4907 times)

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Offline ND Martin

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2013, 05:49:50 PM »
Thanks, Doc.  That was my initial take on ingesting colloidal silver solutions.   I should have written colloidal OR ionic silver.  Ionic silver of course will react with HCl in the stomach to precipitate insoluble silver chloride.

While I certainly respect your professional medical knowledge and experience, I'm not so sure that true colloidal (micro or nanoparticulate?) silver can't get past the stomach acid and get absorbed into the bloodstream.  Searching for bonafide research now and will post what I find later.  There is as usual a preponderance of pseudoscientific nonsense out there.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ahihGKZC5Kk" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/ahihGKZC5Kk</a>
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 06:13:03 PM by ND Martin »

Offline Flight-ER-Doc

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2013, 07:13:16 PM »
Elemental silver is quite reactive on it's own, it has only 1 electron in it's outer shell making it very easy to react with the chloride ions in gastric juices......Ag+ + Cl- --->AgCl or silver chloride. 

In patients with argyria, the AgCl binds (badly) in places
And while YMMV, anything I see advocating for colloidial silver is  pseudoscientific nonsense, to my thinking.  There are no in vivo studies I am aware of that show any antimicrobial effect of colloidial silver in any form.  Anecdotally, I have treated patients post colloidial silver, they still had viral, microbial or fungal infections, genetic mutations, or psychological, metabolic or physical problems.  Colloidal silver was quite popular in HIV+ populations in Los Angeles when I was doing my residency and working as an attending physician, the patients still died from various aids-related complexes, usually quiet a bit poorer.

As I said, if something doesn't work over large populations, it doesn't count as science or medicine.  If it works over small populations, it's coincidence or luck.
Yes, I'm a physician.  No, I'm not YOUR physician.  Nothing I say here is medical advice.

Do I treat Glocks like I treat my lawn mowers?  No, I treat them worse.  I treat my defensive weapons like my fire extinguishers and smoke detector - annual maintenance and I expect them to work when needed


Offline Amisheggpicker

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #52 on: January 31, 2013, 07:47:12 PM »
Remember that old nursery song...the Farmer in the Dell....the last stanza goes The Cheese stands Alone....The Cheese Stands alone....that's me ....the cheese....I stand alone....well at least on this subject on this forum...hahahahahah!  That's ok...

I have a lot of comments to make...both about Silver Sol and star anise....But a clarification needs to be made....I said Silver Sol...not colloidal silver

I do not make my own colloidal silver and silver sol can not be made in the home.


I can not seem to paste this chart on the differences between colloidal silver and silver sol. So I will paste a link to see the chart of the differences....Note that Silver sol has been lab tested.

http://www.guardian-silver-health-supplements.com/silver-sol-vs-colloidal-silver/

Also, Please read this  about "The Blue Man" Paul Karason whom is featured in ND Martin's video....you will find things are a little different then what the media proposed, and the hoax that followed....which will be my introductory into my comments...

http://www.naturalnews.com/035219_colloidal_silver_blue_man_skin.htm

Flight Er Doc... I'm stating this first...I respect you very much, and your profession...we just disagree on a few things and I also believe that it is VERY important for a person to have opposing views...that way a person can do research for himself and then make a decision.  This prevents the sheeple syndrome...which is deadly...hahhaha!  This being said, I would want you as the head of my health team any day.  I DO not throw out Doctors or medicines....my recommendation has always been this....if you have an ailment...go to your doctor...Work with your doctor on how to treat yourself....I'm am so fortunate to have a doctor whom doesn't believe in just perscribing pills...she wants us to work the best we can to fix ourselves without medicine...or if she puts you on something...she expects you to work toward getting off the medicine if at all possible.

Ok, since I'm using silver sol, I will treat your statement/questions as if they pertain to silver sol.  Since I do not make my own, I rely on instructions that are  from the bottle.  There have been many different studies done on Silver Sol and it's safety.   Read the following below:  Note the study done by my favorite University Penn State



In a groundbreaking study, the Journal of Nanotechnology which was conducted by the University of Texas and Mexico University, is the first medical study to ever explore the benefits of silver nano particles, according to Physorg.
 
Dr Rustum Roy of Penn State University is one of the USA's most eminent physical scientists. He reported: ". . . when used alongside a traditional antibiotic, the New Silver Solution has a synergistic effect, thereby extending the life of the efficacy of several antibiotics tenfold".
 
"Newsweek has accurately described him as 'the leading contrarian among U.S. scientists. The U.S. House of Representatives’ Committee on Science, Technology, and Research gave him its only standing ovation in 16 years after one of his recent testimonies. A Pennsylvania State University faculty member for sixty years, is among the two or three leading materials scientists in the U.S. Author of over 1000 papers with major contributions to real science from inventing the sol-gel process to glass ceramics to diamond films and nanocomposites and microwave and laser processing of materials."

"A new peer-review report from Pennsylvania State University (The number-one-ranked material science lab in the world) was just released after years of studying a number of colloidal silver and silver aquasol products purchased from the U.S. market. The paper was authored by Professor Rustum Roy, along with seven other professors and scientists. The report is titled, “Ultradilute Ag-Aquasols with extraordinary bactericidal properties: the role of the system Ag-O-H2O.” On the subject of ionic vs metallic silver for human use, the report states (page 2, fourth paragraph): “In spite of this enormous range of data, it is extraordinary that no major effort has been made to confirm and expand on the role of metallic silver in human health–especially in light of its huge advantage in lack of side effects. (Ingestion of excessive amounts of ionic (soluble) silver , not metallic solid particles is reported to have resulted in a very rare condition labeled argyria, an (irreversible?) darkening of the skin. No one has died of this condition. The safety of metallic silver sols is firmly established by the data cited above.)”
 
An interesting note was released in the Pennsylvania State University scientific paper. It states at the top of page five,
 


“We examined some half a dozen commercially available “silver colloid” products from various manufacturers, but we spent considerably more time and attention on the product of the new manufacturer (American Biotech Labs).”
 

This paper of the esteemed Dr. Roy goes on to state that the reason they chose the Silver Sol technology, by American Biotech Labs, was because their silver solution was made by an extraordinary process, that is patented.
 



“The very potent biologically active silver aquasols contained, typically, the amounts of silver claimed by the manufacturer, typically from 10-30 ppm by weight of Ag. The silver was very pure as was the water.”
 
“The dominant, by far, crystalline solid phase detected in the vast majority of SEM TEM studies is metallic silver.”
 

In other words, the studies found that the products made by American Biotech Labs were very pure and clean, contained the correct amounts of silver, and were made up of metallic silver particles.
 
The knowledge of optimal particle sizes has helped American Biotech Labs file and receive patents on what the company deems the most bio-active or most effective particle size. American Biotech Labs now owns the rights to these particular particle sizes, and no other company or person can legally make a similar product within approximately the next two decades.
 
Numerous tests at major universities , Governmental, and commercial labs like National Institute of Health, Illinois Institute of Technology, Viridis Biopharma, Pennsylvania State University, University California Davis, Kansas State, University of Utah, Utah State University, Brigham Young University,University of Wisconsin have proven the effectiveness of this particular silver solution product.


Any one game enough to  contact either of these Universities and call their research pseudoscientific nonsense...hahahahah!  


Ok, on to it turning to tarnish when it hits the stomach acid....I'm curious, do iron supplements turn to rust when they hit the stomach acid?  By the way, my doctor recommended cooking with cast iron to prevent iron deficiency...little side note there...

ND Martin...many things get past the stomach acid...when I was in nursing, and taking care of patients...many pills we take pass right through the body...I know this sounds disgusting...but nurses have to examine stools for color, consistency, frequency and visible parasites....you learn to distinguish bits of pills from worms and eggs...hahaahah!
 




 
 
 

« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 08:16:35 PM by Amisheggpicker »
Proverbs 21:20  In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil,

but a foolish man devours all he has.

Offline Amisheggpicker

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #53 on: January 31, 2013, 08:12:10 PM »
Now, on to star anise tea...this is what always cracks me up....once the pharmaceutical companies start manufacturing a drug (Tamiflu for instance)  their medicine becomes the only "cure" for the ailment.  But if folks would just THINK for a minute...

Did the pharmaceutical guy just happen upon a little star anise flower..and say...hm mm...lets synthesize this seed pod and extract the shikimic acid and make a drug to treat the bird flu...

Heck no...some one realized that the folks using the star anise seemed to get better quicker....so big pharma sees this, but they need to make a buck by selling a medicine...so they devise a medicine that will make them MONEY! Big Pharma goes all over the world researching what ordinary folks use for cures....granted there are hocus pocus things out there...but we have previously discussed that a good deal of medicine comes from plants and roots and barks...

there is no money in using an ordinary little seed...and besides that's an old wives tales and quack medicine and only ridiculous folks like AmishEggpicker would think that it would work...hahahahahahaha!  We in the western continent are so duped in regards to medicine and Big Pharma!

That will be my next post...since I'm on a roll...hahahaha!   Thanks for the comments ND Martin and Flight ER Doc..you two have a good night...

Update on flu at work...another one bites the dust...and several more are coughing....so far so good for me....but seriously, I'm crossing my fingers, and wearing garlic around my neck...(just kidding about the garlic)
If I do get the flu...I will go to the doctor and take what ever medicine she perscribes....just not the shot...hahahaha!
Proverbs 21:20  In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil,

but a foolish man devours all he has.

Offline Flight-ER-Doc

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #54 on: January 31, 2013, 08:25:33 PM »
American Biotech's patent:  http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/WO2005000324 and http://www.google.ca/patents?hl=en&lr=&vid=USPAT7135195&id=-3F7AAAAEBAJ&oi=fnd&dq=CDC+colloidal+silver&printsec=abstract#v=onepage&q=CDC%20colloidal%20silver&f=false


Quote
Colorless composition comprising silver particles and water, wherein said particles comprise an interior of elemental silver and an exterior of ionic silver oxide, wherein the silver particles are present in the water at a level of about 5-40 ppm [Thats an 800% range there, what range is adequate to treat a disease and what causes permanent problems?], and wherein the composition manifests significant antimicrobial properties [Which doesn't describe what antimicrobial properties it has]. Methods of use of the composition are described. The composition can be incorporated into a hydrogel with essentially no loss of antimicrobial properties.

Further, the patent addresses how to make collodial silver, not its efficacy or safety.  The US Patent Office doesn't address safety or efficacy of drugs, just how to make them.

An in vivo test of American Biotech Labs product:  http://www.internurse.com/cgi-bin/go.pl/library/abstract.html?uid=26606




Quote
Results: In an agar-well diffusion assay none of the three colloidal silver solutions had any effect on the growth of the test organisms. All tested bacterial strains were sensitive to ciprofloxacin. Colloidal silver 22ppm showed no bactericidal activity in phenol coefficient tests.
Conclusion: As the tested colloidal silver solutions did not show any antimicrobial effect in vitro on the microorganisms, claims of colloidal silver’s antimicrobial potency are misleading and there is no place for it as an antiseptic.
[The 22ppm solution is from American Biotech Labs]


Just two quick articles.....

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/PhonyAds/silverad.html

http://dermatology.cdlib.org/111/case_reports/argyria/wadhera.html


Yes, I'm a physician.  No, I'm not YOUR physician.  Nothing I say here is medical advice.

Do I treat Glocks like I treat my lawn mowers?  No, I treat them worse.  I treat my defensive weapons like my fire extinguishers and smoke detector - annual maintenance and I expect them to work when needed

Offline Flight-ER-Doc

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2013, 08:36:43 PM »
Remember that old nursery song...the Farmer in the Dell....the last stanza goes The Cheese stands Alone....The Cheese Stands alone....that's me ....the cheese....I stand alone....well at least on this subject on this forum...hahahahahah!  That's ok...

I have a lot of comments to make...both about Silver Sol and star anise....But a clarification needs to be made....I said Silver Sol...not colloidal silver

I do not make my own colloidal silver and silver sol can not be made in the home.


I can not seem to paste this chart on the differences between colloidal silver and silver sol. So I will paste a link to see the chart of the differences....Note that Silver sol has been lab tested.

http://www.guardian-silver-health-supplements.com/silver-sol-vs-colloidal-silver/

Also, Please read this  about "The Blue Man" Paul Karason whom is featured in ND Martin's video....you will find things are a little different then what the media proposed, and the hoax that followed....which will be my introductory into my comments...

http://www.naturalnews.com/035219_colloidal_silver_blue_man_skin.htm

Flight Er Doc... I'm stating this first...I respect you very much, and your profession...we just disagree on a few things and I also believe that it is VERY important for a person to have opposing views...that way a person can do research for himself and then make a decision.  This prevents the sheeple syndrome...which is deadly...hahhaha!  This being said, I would want you as the head of my health team any day.  I DO not throw out Doctors or medicines....my recommendation has always been this....if you have an ailment...go to your doctor...Work with your doctor on how to treat yourself....I'm am so fortunate to have a doctor whom doesn't believe in just perscribing pills...she wants us to work the best we can to fix ourselves without medicine...or if she puts you on something...she expects you to work toward getting off the medicine if at all possible.

Ok, since I'm using silver sol, I will treat your statement/questions as if they pertain to silver sol.  Since I do not make my own, I rely on instructions that are  from the bottle.  There have been many different studies done on Silver Sol and it's safety.   Read the following below:  Note the study done by my favorite University Penn State



In a groundbreaking study, the Journal of Nanotechnology which was conducted by the University of Texas and Mexico University, is the first medical study to ever explore the benefits of silver nano particles, according to Physorg.
 
Dr Rustum Roy of Penn State University is one of the USA's most eminent physical scientists. He reported: ". . . when used alongside a traditional antibiotic, the New Silver Solution has a synergistic effect, thereby extending the life of the efficacy of several antibiotics tenfold".
 
"Newsweek has accurately described him as 'the leading contrarian among U.S. scientists. The U.S. House of Representatives’ Committee on Science, Technology, and Research gave him its only standing ovation in 16 years after one of his recent testimonies. A Pennsylvania State University faculty member for sixty years, is among the two or three leading materials scientists in the U.S. Author of over 1000 papers with major contributions to real science from inventing the sol-gel process to glass ceramics to diamond films and nanocomposites and microwave and laser processing of materials."

"A new peer-review report from Pennsylvania State University (The number-one-ranked material science lab in the world) was just released after years of studying a number of colloidal silver and silver aquasol products purchased from the U.S. market. The paper was authored by Professor Rustum Roy, along with seven other professors and scientists. The report is titled, “Ultradilute Ag-Aquasols with extraordinary bactericidal properties: the role of the system Ag-O-H2O.” On the subject of ionic vs metallic silver for human use, the report states (page 2, fourth paragraph): “In spite of this enormous range of data, it is extraordinary that no major effort has been made to confirm and expand on the role of metallic silver in human health–especially in light of its huge advantage in lack of side effects. (Ingestion of excessive amounts of ionic (soluble) silver , not metallic solid particles is reported to have resulted in a very rare condition labeled argyria, an (irreversible?) darkening of the skin. No one has died of this condition. The safety of metallic silver sols is firmly established by the data cited above.)”
 
An interesting note was released in the Pennsylvania State University scientific paper. It states at the top of page five,
 


“We examined some half a dozen commercially available “silver colloid” products from various manufacturers, but we spent considerably more time and attention on the product of the new manufacturer (American Biotech Labs).”
 

This paper of the esteemed Dr. Roy goes on to state that the reason they chose the Silver Sol technology, by American Biotech Labs, was because their silver solution was made by an extraordinary process, that is patented.
 



“The very potent biologically active silver aquasols contained, typically, the amounts of silver claimed by the manufacturer, typically from 10-30 ppm by weight of Ag. The silver was very pure as was the water.”
 
“The dominant, by far, crystalline solid phase detected in the vast majority of SEM TEM studies is metallic silver.”
 

In other words, the studies found that the products made by American Biotech Labs were very pure and clean, contained the correct amounts of silver, and were made up of metallic silver particles.
 
The knowledge of optimal particle sizes has helped American Biotech Labs file and receive patents on what the company deems the most bio-active or most effective particle size. American Biotech Labs now owns the rights to these particular particle sizes, and no other company or person can legally make a similar product within approximately the next two decades.
 
Numerous tests at major universities , Governmental, and commercial labs like National Institute of Health, Illinois Institute of Technology, Viridis Biopharma, Pennsylvania State University, University California Davis, Kansas State, University of Utah, Utah State University, Brigham Young University,University of Wisconsin have proven the effectiveness of this particular silver solution product.


Any one game enough to  contact either of these Universities and call their research pseudoscientific nonsense...hahahahah!  


Ok, on to it turning to tarnish when it hits the stomach acid....I'm curious, do iron supplements turn to rust when they hit the stomach acid?  By the way, my doctor recommended cooking with cast iron to prevent iron deficiency...little side note there...

ND Martin...many things get past the stomach acid...when I was in nursing, and taking care of patients...many pills we take pass right through the body...I know this sounds disgusting...but nurses have to examine stools for color, consistency, frequency and visible parasites....you learn to distinguish bits of pills from worms and eggs...hahaahah!
 




 
 
 




Iron supplements are not elemental iron...if they were you could get benefit by eating a nail.   Geritol, for example, is ferric ammonium citrate, not iron (Fe) or 2-Hydroxypropane-1,2,3-tricarboxylate, ammonium iron(3+) salt.


The differences between elemental and ionic forms of elements are significant.  Sodium, for example, will explode spontaneously on contact with water.  Mix it with a chloride ion (NaCl) and its in every single cell in the body.  Chlorine is a deadly poison (as is fluorine), their ions are in the body as well; fluoride as an ion in bones and teeth, mostly.  Hydrogen (H) is explosive in an oxygen (O) environment, but mix it with oxygen and it makes water H2O.


And Silversol is a marketing term....according to their patent, they are making colloidial silver.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 08:38:56 PM by Flight-ER-Doc »
Yes, I'm a physician.  No, I'm not YOUR physician.  Nothing I say here is medical advice.

Do I treat Glocks like I treat my lawn mowers?  No, I treat them worse.  I treat my defensive weapons like my fire extinguishers and smoke detector - annual maintenance and I expect them to work when needed

Offline Amisheggpicker

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2013, 08:47:58 PM »
Hey Doc...are your articles referring to colloidal silver  or silver sol?  My understanding is these are two different things....and don't quote me on this one...but didn't they suspend the sale of colloidal silver?  My articles are referring to silver sol...

About the blue people..if I read your articles correctly....those folks used colloidal silver for an extended period of a time...and honestly, didn't someone notice them turning blue?  gheese


I call these posts "The War of the Colloidal Silver/silver sol studies"  

Maybe they will make a movie about us someday...hahahahah  The EGG versus the DOC....you know, one of those Japanese movies like Godzilla vs King Kong...with an English do over!  hahahahaha!
 
But I want a disclaimer that states "this egg was not used in formulation of flu shots"...hahahahahaha  

And you can have this big syringe loaded with the flu shot and you can chase the Egg all around...scaring it,

and the Egg will be throwing SilverSol all over you...and spraying lavender oil in the air....

and then the Egg will be in panic mode and won't see where it is running to and  will fall  off a giant wall and crack in a million pieces...

but then you can be the hero and patch the Egg all up...just like new....

We'll make millions..and have figurines made in our likeness and possibly a sequel...
Proverbs 21:20  In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil,

but a foolish man devours all he has.

Offline Amisheggpicker

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2013, 08:52:07 PM »
I wonder why they refer to silver sol as being different than colloidal silver on their chart...

Oh well...Doc you are always good for some down and gritty brain picking...does the soul good...

I am way past my bedtime and must get to sleep...good night and good health folks...

Proverbs 21:20  In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil,

but a foolish man devours all he has.

Offline ND Martin

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2013, 02:00:06 AM »
I've found a few in vivo studies, but I'm still exploring.  The blue guy in the vid I posted was taking massive doses--many ounces of 3-400ppm solution daily--for months.  Generally those who suffer argyria from colloidal silver in lesser doses are taking solutions that are contaminated by improper manufacture.  For example, making CS using tap water produces undesirable (and essentially poisonous) silver salts that are absorbed in the small intestine.

Star anise is used in TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) for digestive ailments, bronchitis and rheumatism. It's a stimulant and helps reduce chronic pain.  It is not traditionally used as an anti-viral remedy.  The money question is whether star anise was being used as an anti-viral BEFORE it became common knowledge that it was a raw material for Tamiflu.  It's not likely going to hurt you, but there are probably more effective natural ways to strengthen your immune system. 

Don't get me wrong.  I'm very much in favor of natural remedies and have an extensive herbal library.  I try to grow what I want to use.  For example, I put in schisandra berry (magnolia) vines and goji berry shrubs last year that should begin to bear this coming season.  Schisandra is an adaptogen with a laundry list of benefits.  It's expensive in the stores and rarely if ever available in fresh form here--always dried.  Goji berries are chock full of antioxidants and vitamin A.


Offline Amisheggpicker

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2013, 07:06:41 AM »
That is cool ND Martin...and we'll have to have more discussions on herbs and such.  I know of a great place in Ohio  (Companion Planting) that sells a hugh amount of herbal plants...he sells them all over the world ...and has uncommon plants....I hope to travel to his place this summer. 

I did find this article that you might like....it tells about how the Chinese has used star anise for flu for a long long time...but one thing you and I agree on is that it won't hurt you...and if you like anise flavoring...the tea tastes good..hahahaah!

Looking forward to seeing some more posts from you on your ideas on herbs etc.  We have a specific board for that.

Here is the article.

Star anise (Illicium verum), with its sensual curves, firm body and alluring scent, wins the spice beauty pageant! And it’s beauty is more than skin deep.
The perfect 8-pointed star with slender pods, each pod cradling a seed, is the sun-dried fruit of native Chinese evergreens. Its most noticeable characteristic is it’s licorice aroma – much stronger, sweeter and denser than the more common Spanish anise seeds. This licorice taste comes from anethol, just one of this spice’s compounds that have been shown to possess healing powers for a wide range of maladies, such as fighting infections, relieving arthritis, colic, cough, indigestion and more.
Buying and Storage
Buy whole, broken pieces or ground. Intact stars are more for aesthetics than a matter of taste or freshness; broken pieces most likely indicate aggressive handling during shipping or packaging. A whole star should have no more than 8 points (carpals). You don’t want to confuse it with Japanese star anise which has more points and is poisonous – AND is not sold on the open market! The Japanese version also smells like turpentine or denatured alcohol, not licorice, so it’s quite easy to distinguish.
Best test for freshness: you should be able to detect its aroma immediately. No aroma means it’s past it’s time. Whole star anise has a long storage life: 5 years if kept in a glass jar with airtight lid in a cool, dark place. Ground keeps for less than a year, if stored in the same conditions.
Medicinal Properties
Infection Fighter: For thousands of years, star anise has been used in traditional Chinese medicine to fight flu by clearing mucous from the respiratory tract. Today, science has confirmed this capability. In fact, shikimic acid, one of the compounds in the spice, is a key component of Tamiflu, the most commonly prescribed drug for treating flu.
Studies have shown that the spice is effective in viral, bacterial or fungal infections and inflammation, including septic shock, an often fatal, system-wide infection; herpes simplex 1, reducing cold sores; eliminating 99% of streptococcus mutans, the bacteria found in cavities.
Coughs: Star anise enjoys a considerable reputation as medicine in coughs and chest infections.  A common ingredient in medicinal teas, cough medicines and lozenges, it’s especially effective in hard, dry coughs and whooping coughs.
Anti-Cancer: Various compounds found in star anise kill cancer cells and, in lab research, reduce damage to brain cells.
Rheumatism and Arthritis: The spice helps reduce painful inflammation. The Chinese prescribe a star anise tea to bring relief.
Digestive Aid: In Chinese medicine the seeds are chewed before meals to spark appetite or after to relieve gas and bloating. The spice is also used to combat colic, which may be caused by gastrointestinal problems, such as gas brought on by overfeeding or intestinal spasm. The seed pod can be chewed as a breath freshener. To make a tea: put 1-1/2 cups of cold water and 6-8 stars in a saucepan.  Bring to a boil, turn off heat and let sit for 10 minutes. For digestive problems, drink a cup several times a day, if possible after each meal.
In the Kitchen
Star anise provides that je ne sais quoi – that intangible quality that gives a distinctive flavor to certain Chinese dishes, like Peking duck and spare ribs. The traditional Chinese cook wraps star anise in a muslin sack and puts it in “master stock” to which new ingredients can be continually added over months or even years.  A master stock recipe is generally kept as a family secret, passed on through generations.  In Europe, where the spice was unknown until the 17th century, it’s a popular flavoring for confections, jams, syrups and cordials.
This spice has a strong licorice flavor with a slight suggestion of cinnamon and clove. A little goes a long way! One whole star, or a pinch of ground, is enough to enhance a vegetable stir fry.  Too much makes a dish bitter. In whole form the spice is not edible, so many cooks remove the star from the pot after cooking and place it on the platter or plate as garnish. The powder and seeds are edible and have an intriguing nuttiness.
A few ways to use star anise:
•   In soups, stews and casseroles requiring long cooking, especially with beef or chicken.
•   Place in pan when making roast chicken or duck.
•   Add to stewed apples or plums.
•   Add to the liquid when poaching chicken or fish.
•   Rub the ground spice into poultry or game before cooking.
Proverbs 21:20  In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil,

but a foolish man devours all he has.

Offline ND Martin

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #60 on: February 01, 2013, 09:14:28 AM »
I know Companion.  The're a decent source of some obscure varieties.  Good selections of some species, but very limited in others.  For example, they list only two grain amaranth varieties, one of which has a curious name that the Doc will love -- A. hypochondriacus.  I'll comment about amaranth on a more appropriate board later.  Right now the banksters are pushing down the price of silver (as expected) and I gotta pay attention.  
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 09:19:23 AM by ND Martin »

Offline Amisheggpicker

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #61 on: February 01, 2013, 09:36:10 AM »
I'm with you on the "bankstas"  pay attention folks....

I think we have a thread and some pics on grain amaranth...interested in what you have to post....always willing to learn more!
Proverbs 21:20  In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil,

but a foolish man devours all he has.

Offline Bonnie

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #62 on: February 01, 2013, 12:55:31 PM »

Other than that, it's unicorn flatulence and pixy dust..... I don't discount the placebo effect at all, but if something is NOT REPEATABLE across large populations, it's not science and medicine.  As far as people trying different nostrums, as Osler said the tincture of time cures most ailments, in spite of what medicine tries to do.

Love the "unicorn flatulence and pixie dust" - I'm going to remember that. Once I started reading serious articles about medicine - both real & phony - I saved us a lot of money. And oddly enough, we're healthier than ever.  :)

Trying to explain "tincture of time" to true believers in homeopathy or other "cures" is extremely difficult. And similarly, people who think symptom relief (in OTC patent medicines) is the same as a cure.
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Offline Amisheggpicker

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #63 on: February 01, 2013, 05:59:30 PM »
I fully understand "tincture of time"   having been literally bedridden for 4 months while suffering from mono AND parvo virus...which has no cure but rest....hahahaha....you most certainly understand that concept! hahahaha!
Proverbs 21:20  In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil,

but a foolish man devours all he has.

Offline Amisheggpicker

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #64 on: February 01, 2013, 06:44:26 PM »


ok Folks...there has been some pretty strong words tossed around in regards to silversol....I'm posting articles about the Food and Drug Administration approving of American Biotech Lab to market  Silversol gel for wound dressing...and then then an article on it's uses in various places....plus it's initial testing on several forms of the bird flu...These article were written in 2007.  It's now 2013.  I tried to mark specific lines in bold...you will have to scroll down some of the articles...and these articles were taken from medical magazines etc.
Also the Environmental Protection Agency has given approval for the use in disinfecting.  (All you folks who think Silversol is bad, BEWARE...your dentist might be using it in their dental lines....)

If you read these articles...you will see this product is not made at home by kooky weirdos trying to self medicate...patents have been approved, studies conducted by numerous schools...plus the approval of two well known governmental agencies...

In one of the articles you will find "no known side affects"   no one has ever turned blue because it's made differently than Colloidal Silver.

I can't change a persons mind...I can present articles that show its a viable product that DOCTORS are recommending....I have talked to several that use it themselves...one little sidenote  I live in an area where we have access to with  renowned hospitals (Pittsburgh)  In one of the hospitals I was visiting, they actually have special classes and centers to treat patients holistically....including herbal medicine, meditation, etc....this is the new and upcoming medical treatment.


Source: American Biotech L
 Wednesday,Jun 10,2009
The FDA approval letter confirms that ABL may market ASAP Wound Dressing Gel "for the topical management of minor cuts, lacerations, abrasions, 1st and 2nd degree burns, and skin irritations." The product utilizes ABL's innovative SilverSol



The FDA approval letter confirms that ABL may market ASAP Wound Dressing Gel "for the topical management of minor cuts, lacerations, abrasions, 1st and 2nd degree burns, and skin irritations." The product utilizes ABL's innovative SilverSol Technology, which has garnered multiple patents in the U.S. and several countries throughout the world, including a broad-use patent that provides the company with exclusive rights to use its silver-based products to combat many of the world's most destructive pathogens, including malaria, tuberculosis, MRSA and HIV.


"We are delighted with the FDA's decision to grant approval for ABL to broadly market our ASAP Wound Dressing Gel," said Dr. William Moeller, a managing director of American Biotech Labs. "We feel this is a singularly effective wound care product, and it is a tremendous validation for us that ABL products have now received approval from the FDA as well as from the EPA."
 

ABL has performed extensive anti-microbial studies against bacteria, yeast, fungus and other pathogens. Information about these studies is available at research section of the ABL Website, www.americanbiotechlabs.com/researchprotected/researchmenu.html.
 

About American Biotech Labs
 
American Biotech Labs (ABL; www.americanbiotechlabs.com), founded in 1998, utilizes patented processes and SilverSol Technology® to create singularly powerful and effective nano-catalytic silver products. In extensive testing performed by a variety of respected laboratories and researchers, ABL's silver hydrosol has consistently demonstrated the ability, without any known toxic side effects, to destroy a wide range of bacteria, viruses, yeast, and molds. ABL products have been approved by the by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as a disinfectant for dental water lines, and as a surface disinfectant for bacteria, yeast and mold in hospital, residential, commercial and industrial settings; and by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for wound care. The company's products have been the subject of multiple peer-reviewed articles in professional journals, and are sold worldwide at health food stores and by medical professionals under the Silver Biotics® and ASAP Solution® brands, and through a variety of private labels.
 

Press Contact: Kimball Thomson Next Phase Communications (for American Biotech Labs) kthomson@npcomm.com 801.918.3637
 
CONTACT: Kimball Thomson of Next Phase Communications, 1-801-918-3637,kthomson@npcomm.com, for American Biotech Labs

Web site: http://www.americanbiotechlabs.com/





Medical Patent Week
 
Susan Hasty, Publisher
 
Table of Contents . . . October 28th, 2007
 Non-Subscriber - Summaries Only
 
Related Areas: Other Issues in Medical Patent Week | Other Publications


Biomedicine - Maas BiolAB Awarded $2.1 Million SBIR for Cyclosporin ALS Treatment

Biomedicine - The USC Stevens Institute for Innovation Opens Shop on US Health Sciences Campus

Bird Flu - American Biotech Labs Announces Results of Preliminary Tests for Multiple Avian Bird Flu Strains Using Patented ABL SilverSol Technology(TM)
Cancer - NIST Awards $2 Million to 20/20 GeneSystems for Innovative Tumor Profiling Technology

Clinical Trial Research - Noven Announces Results of Phase 3 Clinical Study of Once-Daily Lithium Product

Drug Delivery - Nastech Pharmaceutical Company Announces the Jeffrey Wenig Memorial Award for Outstanding Achievement in Drug Delivery

Vaccines - Prof. Michel Klein Becomes Chief Scientific Officer at AMVAC


Bird Flu

American Biotech Labs Announces Results of Preliminary Tests for Multiple Avian Bird Flu Strains Using Patented ABL SilverSol Technology(TM)

Published in Medical Patent Law Weekly, October 24th, 2007


 American Biotech Labs (ABL; www.AmericanBiotechLabs.com), creator of a line of powerful products that utilize patented ABL SilverSol Technology(TM) to combat pathogens associated with many of the world's most harmful diseases, announced successful preliminary results on tests performed using the company's products against two strains of the avian bird flu virus.

 Preliminary in vitro animal study tests performed by two separate independent laboratories, using the company's ABL SilverSol Technology at 10 parts per million against two strains of the H5-N1 subtype of the Avian Bird Flu virus, indicated that the ABL products were able to neutralize the virus.

...


Want to see the full article?
 ■Purchase this article for only $3.00
Proverbs 21:20  In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil,

but a foolish man devours all he has.

Offline Flight-ER-Doc

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #65 on: February 01, 2013, 06:53:37 PM »
I wonder why they refer to silver sol as being different than colloidal silver on their chart...

Oh well...Doc you are always good for some down and gritty brain picking...does the soul good...

I am way past my bedtime and must get to sleep...good night and good health folks...



Marketing....they are trying to convince people that their product is somehow better than the others...
Yes, I'm a physician.  No, I'm not YOUR physician.  Nothing I say here is medical advice.

Do I treat Glocks like I treat my lawn mowers?  No, I treat them worse.  I treat my defensive weapons like my fire extinguishers and smoke detector - annual maintenance and I expect them to work when needed

Offline Flight-ER-Doc

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #66 on: February 01, 2013, 07:04:13 PM »
Hey Doc...are your articles referring to colloidal silver  or silver sol?  My understanding is these are two different things....and don't quote me on this one...but didn't they suspend the sale of colloidal silver?  My articles are referring to silver sol...

About the blue people..if I read your articles correctly....those folks used colloidal silver for an extended period of a time...and honestly, didn't someone notice them turning blue?  gheese


I call these posts "The War of the Colloidal Silver/silver sol studies"  

Maybe they will make a movie about us someday...hahahahah  The EGG versus the DOC....you know, one of those Japanese movies like Godzilla vs King Kong...with an English do over!  hahahahaha!
 
But I want a disclaimer that states "this egg was not used in formulation of flu shots"...hahahahahaha  

And you can have this big syringe loaded with the flu shot and you can chase the Egg all around...scaring it,

and the Egg will be throwing SilverSol all over you...and spraying lavender oil in the air....

and then the Egg will be in panic mode and won't see where it is running to and  will fall  off a giant wall and crack in a million pieces...

but then you can be the hero and patch the Egg all up...just like new....

We'll make millions..and have figurines made in our likeness and possibly a sequel...

The FDA has banned marketing colloidial silver as a medical treatment.  You can still buy it as a food supplement, which is unregulated, or make it yourself.

As far as the blue guy taking too much, what about gray people who took less?  How much is enough, and how much is too much?  If 22ppm works (and there is little to no evidence that it does) does 21ppm not work?  Is 23 ppm too much?  Is the dose weight dependent?  Age dependent?  Affected by other drugs?  Does it have different effects on different races or genders?  Are there slow and fast metabolizers?  Genetic differences like G6PD-deficencies?  How fast is it eliminated from the body (it isn't, actually) and by what methods?  Is single dosing adequate?  Daily dosing?  Dosing every 4-6 hours?  Can it be administered via other than oral routes?

And since the only controls on this stuff are the integrity of the manufacturers, what is that worth?  Even if the FDA closes them down tomorrow, they'd be open on Monday with a different name selling the same stuff.
Yes, I'm a physician.  No, I'm not YOUR physician.  Nothing I say here is medical advice.

Do I treat Glocks like I treat my lawn mowers?  No, I treat them worse.  I treat my defensive weapons like my fire extinguishers and smoke detector - annual maintenance and I expect them to work when needed

Offline Flight-ER-Doc

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #67 on: February 01, 2013, 07:23:15 PM »

ok Folks...there has been some pretty strong words tossed around in regards to silversol....I'm posting articles about the Food and Drug Administration approving of American Biotech Lab to market  Silversol gel for wound dressing...and then then an article on it's uses in various places....plus it's initial testing on several forms of the bird flu...These article were written in 2007.  It's now 2013.  I tried to mark specific lines in bold...you will have to scroll down some of the articles...and these articles were taken from medical magazines etc.
Also the Environmental Protection Agency has given approval for the use in disinfecting.  (All you folks who think Silversol is bad, BEWARE...your dentist might be using it in their dental lines....)

If you read these articles...you will see this product is not made at home by kooky weirdos trying to self medicate...patents have been approved, studies conducted by numerous schools...plus the approval of two well known governmental agencies...

In one of the articles you will find "no known side affects"   no one has ever turned blue because it's made differently than Colloidal Silver.

I can't change a persons mind...I can present articles that show its a viable product that DOCTORS are recommending....I have talked to several that use it themselves...one little sidenote  I live in an area where we have access to with  renowned hospitals (Pittsburgh)  In one of the hospitals I was visiting, they actually have special classes and centers to treat patients holistically....including herbal medicine, meditation, etc....this is the new and upcoming medical treatment.


Source: American Biotech L
 Wednesday,Jun 10,2009
The FDA approval letter confirms that ABL may market ASAP Wound Dressing Gel "for the topical management of minor cuts, lacerations, abrasions, 1st and 2nd degree burns, and skin irritations." The product utilizes ABL's innovative SilverSol



The FDA approval letter confirms that ABL may market ASAP Wound Dressing Gel "for the topical management of minor cuts, lacerations, abrasions, 1st and 2nd degree burns, and skin irritations." The product utilizes ABL's innovative SilverSol Technology, which has garnered multiple patents in the U.S. and several countries throughout the world, including a broad-use patent that provides the company with exclusive rights to use its silver-based products to combat many of the world's most destructive pathogens, including malaria, tuberculosis, MRSA and HIV.


"We are delighted with the FDA's decision to grant approval for ABL to broadly market our ASAP Wound Dressing Gel," said Dr. William Moeller, a managing director of American Biotech Labs. "We feel this is a singularly effective wound care product, and it is a tremendous validation for us that ABL products have now received approval from the FDA as well as from the EPA."
 

ABL has performed extensive anti-microbial studies against bacteria, yeast, fungus and other pathogens. Information about these studies is available at research section of the ABL Website, www.americanbiotechlabs.com/researchprotected/researchmenu.html.
 

About American Biotech Labs
 
American Biotech Labs (ABL; www.americanbiotechlabs.com), founded in 1998, utilizes patented processes and SilverSol Technology® to create singularly powerful and effective nano-catalytic silver products. In extensive testing performed by a variety of respected laboratories and researchers, ABL's silver hydrosol has consistently demonstrated the ability, without any known toxic side effects, to destroy a wide range of bacteria, viruses, yeast, and molds. ABL products have been approved by the by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as a disinfectant for dental water lines, and as a surface disinfectant for bacteria, yeast and mold in hospital, residential, commercial and industrial settings; and by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for wound care. The company's products have been the subject of multiple peer-reviewed articles in professional journals, and are sold worldwide at health food stores and by medical professionals under the Silver Biotics® and ASAP Solution® brands, and through a variety of private labels.
 

Press Contact: Kimball Thomson Next Phase Communications (for American Biotech Labs) kthomson@npcomm.com 801.918.3637
 
CONTACT: Kimball Thomson of Next Phase Communications, 1-801-918-3637,kthomson@npcomm.com, for American Biotech Labs

Web site: http://www.americanbiotechlabs.com/





Medical Patent Week
 
Susan Hasty, Publisher
 
Table of Contents . . . October 28th, 2007
 Non-Subscriber - Summaries Only
 
Related Areas: Other Issues in Medical Patent Week | Other Publications


Biomedicine - Maas BiolAB Awarded $2.1 Million SBIR for Cyclosporin ALS Treatment

Biomedicine - The USC Stevens Institute for Innovation Opens Shop on US Health Sciences Campus

Bird Flu - American Biotech Labs Announces Results of Preliminary Tests for Multiple Avian Bird Flu Strains Using Patented ABL SilverSol Technology(TM)
Cancer - NIST Awards $2 Million to 20/20 GeneSystems for Innovative Tumor Profiling Technology

Clinical Trial Research - Noven Announces Results of Phase 3 Clinical Study of Once-Daily Lithium Product

Drug Delivery - Nastech Pharmaceutical Company Announces the Jeffrey Wenig Memorial Award for Outstanding Achievement in Drug Delivery

Vaccines - Prof. Michel Klein Becomes Chief Scientific Officer at AMVAC


Bird Flu

American Biotech Labs Announces Results of Preliminary Tests for Multiple Avian Bird Flu Strains Using Patented ABL SilverSol Technology(TM)

Published in Medical Patent Law Weekly, October 24th, 2007


 American Biotech Labs (ABL; www.AmericanBiotechLabs.com), creator of a line of powerful products that utilize patented ABL SilverSol Technology(TM) to combat pathogens associated with many of the world's most harmful diseases, announced successful preliminary results on tests performed using the company's products against two strains of the avian bird flu virus.

 Preliminary in vitro animal study tests performed by two separate independent laboratories, using the company's ABL SilverSol Technology at 10 parts per million against two strains of the H5-N1 subtype of the Avian Bird Flu virus, indicated that the ABL products were able to neutralize the virus.

...


Want to see the full article?
 ■Purchase this article for only $3.00



Topical use means using it on the outside of the body.  That is QUITE different in chemical effects, and biomedical effects, than using it on the inside of the body, by drinking it.  Silver has been used as a topical dressing for quite a long time, nothing new or particularly dangerous about it.  Taking it internally is a totally different issue.

The EPA is certifying as a water disinfectant...how much of the stuff is left over for people to drink?

And Medical Patent Law Weekly is not a peer-reviewed medical journal.  Its not a medical journal at all, it may be a law journal but as I told myself when I was in medical school, if medicine were easy they'd let lawyers do it.  I don't offer legal advice, and I would appreciate it if lawyers (especially politician types) didn't offer medical advice.  Taking medical treatment advice from a lawyers, patent, or similar magazine makes about as much sense as taking medical advice from Pro Bass Fishing magazine...
 
And as I said earlier, a patent is for process, not success or efficacy...  Back when I was a kid a distant relative got a US patent for a device to shake a penis after urination....because he was pretty much a clown and his device met the legal requirements for a patent, not that it was a good idea, and only prevents others from making and selling the same product.
Yes, I'm a physician.  No, I'm not YOUR physician.  Nothing I say here is medical advice.

Do I treat Glocks like I treat my lawn mowers?  No, I treat them worse.  I treat my defensive weapons like my fire extinguishers and smoke detector - annual maintenance and I expect them to work when needed

Offline Amisheggpicker

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #68 on: February 01, 2013, 07:26:03 PM »
The FDA approved Silversol....I understand the topical use, but it's not topical when they use it for the flu...I still think we are talking about 2 similar but differently produced products...oh well....you sure make a person think..which I will say again is is a good positive thing...even though i disagree..hahahah...And I'm darn sure I'm not changing your mind...hahahaha....but I respect you and your profession immensly....

That's the freedom of living in America...it's now well documented on this forum that we disagree...and we both made thorough presentations in a civil manner...so I'm going to move on to a question:

For those of you whom don't get the flu shot....I have presented the methods I use to try to ward off getting sick....(I did forget that I try to keep my hands away from my face also)  What things do you do to try to prevent getting the flu, when it's running rampant?

For those of you whom DO get the shot....do you do anything different?  or do you just rely on the shot?

interested in seeing what your responses are.

This particular strain of flu is very very nasty....it lingers on for a long time....one department at work now, has an entire row, out with the flu....and yet another one today in my department is sick...this brings the total in my department to 5, with one being hospitalized and one not being heard from since the beginning of the week.  The doctors around here are telling the ones whom are sick, but not sick enough to be hospitalized, to stay AWAY from other people!  like a self quarantine...


« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 07:31:30 PM by Amisheggpicker »
Proverbs 21:20  In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil,

but a foolish man devours all he has.

Offline Flight-ER-Doc

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #69 on: February 01, 2013, 07:59:14 PM »
The FDA approved Silversol....I understand the topical use, but it's not topical when they use it for the flu...I still think we are talking about 2 similar but differently produced products...oh well....you sure make a person think..which I will say again is is a good positive thing...even though i disagree..hahahah...And I'm darn sure I'm not changing your mind...hahahaha....but I respect you and your profession immensly....

That's the freedom of living in America...it's now well documented on this forum that we disagree...and we both made thorough presentations in a civil manner...so I'm going to move on to a question:

For those of you whom don't get the flu shot....I have presented the methods I use to try to ward off getting sick....(I did forget that I try to keep my hands away from my face also)  What things do you do to try to prevent getting the flu, when it's running rampant?

For those of you whom DO get the shot....do you do anything different?  or do you just rely on the shot?

interested in seeing what your responses are.

This particular strain of flu is very very nasty....it lingers on for a long time....one department at work now, has an entire row, out with the flu....and yet another one today in my department is sick...this brings the total in my department to 5, with one being hospitalized and one not being heard from since the beginning of the week.  The doctors around here are telling the ones whom are sick, but not sick enough to be hospitalized, to stay AWAY from other people!  like a self quarantine...




According to what you posted:  

Quote
The FDA approval letter confirms that ABL may market ASAP Wound Dressing Gel "for the topical management of minor cuts, lacerations, abrasions, 1st and 2nd degree burns, and skin irritations." The product utilizes ABL's innovative SilverSo

Topical, not for flu.

And searching the FDA database I get nothing for SilverSol:

http://google2.fda.gov/search?q=SilverSol&x=0&y=0&proxystylesheet=FDAgov&output=xml_no_dtd&sort=date%253AD%253AL%253Ad1&client=FDAgov&entqr=3&entqrm=0&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&ud=1&site=FDAgov-Section-Drugs&filter=0&btnG=Search

And nothing for American Biotech Labs:

http://google2.fda.gov/search?q=%22American+Biotech+Labs%22&x=0&y=0&proxystylesheet=FDAgov&output=xml_no_dtd&sort=date%253AD%253AL%253Ad1&client=FDAgov&entqr=3&entqrm=0&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&ud=1&site=FDAgov-Section-Drugs&filter=0&btnG=Search

And nothing for American Biotech Laboratory:

http://google2.fda.gov/search?q=%22American+Biotech+Laboratory%22&x=0&y=0&proxystylesheet=FDAgov&output=xml_no_dtd&sort=date%253AD%253AL%253Ad1&client=FDAgov&entqr=3&entqrm=0&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&ud=1&site=FDAgov-Section-Drugs&filter=0&btnG=Search

Just to make certain that the FDA's site is working, I searched on a real drug and got many returns:

http://google2.fda.gov/search?q=lipitor&x=0&y=0&proxystylesheet=FDAgov&output=xml_no_dtd&sort=date%253AD%253AL%253Ad1&client=FDAgov&entqr=3&entqrm=0&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&ud=1&site=FDAgov-Section-Drugs&filter=0&btnG=Search

While people are free to disagree, I notice that you ignore many of the questions I pose.....while people are entitled to their own opinions, they are not entitled to their own facts.....And there seems to be little support for Silversol and ABL other than their own website and press releases, at least medically.  The various patent reports are interesting but unimportant, medically.


« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 08:01:11 PM by Flight-ER-Doc »
Yes, I'm a physician.  No, I'm not YOUR physician.  Nothing I say here is medical advice.

Do I treat Glocks like I treat my lawn mowers?  No, I treat them worse.  I treat my defensive weapons like my fire extinguishers and smoke detector - annual maintenance and I expect them to work when needed

Offline Amisheggpicker

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #70 on: February 01, 2013, 09:34:00 PM »
While people are free to disagree, I notice that you ignore many of the questions I pose.....while people are entitled to their own opinions, they are not entitled to their own facts.....And there seems to be little support for Silversol and ABL other than their own website and press releases, at least medically.  The various patent reports are interesting but unimportant, medically.

let me start off by saying this....no matter what thing we are researching....we all can find things to sway our side of the opinion.  The search engines now have the capability of directing you to certain sites and not give you the whole scope...all of us can find what ever we want supporting our beliefs...and i also have a boyfriend that is a french model....

I'm not ignoring your questions per say....I didn't think they pertained to what i was saying...because I felt they were about colloidal silver...and making colloidal silver...which i don't make...but you believe silversol is the same as colloidal silver.  I also feel that the articles that I posted very much support it's use and I'm not posting my own facts...I'm posting the facts in the article (one of which came from a medical magazine)...I didn't make this stuff up in my head.

You and I both know, that you are not asking questions for knowledge sake....you are posing them in a "I'm superior" manner.... just make the statement...don't put it in question form...I have been nothing but kind to you, even while disagreeing with you.  I can't say you have been the same....

You come across as your way and your training is the "ONLY" way...I seem to recall that you and Traumahawk, (another doctor whom once was on this site had a disagreement too!)  There are doctors here, whom would vehemently disagree with you...My doctors use Silversol themselves...I have stated repeatedly that I think anyone interested in herbal medicine or alternative medicine should work closely with their Doctor...but you give me no credence what so ever...I don't need your approval...you take one thing I say and twist it...I know about the topical use of silversol...but when they used it for the flu, it was not topical..I only put that one on here so folks could see its topical uses...

I post things on here because I believe that folks should have a variety of options to choose from...not just one simple "my way or the highway" point of view...

I have my doctors....and let me say this....I had a doctors appointment yesterday...and when I walked in the room, she gave me an "applause"....you have no idea how very sick I was and how far I have come in becoming well...mostly through diet, exercise and herbal medicine...ALL under the Doc's watchfull eye...and I see several specialists in the same hospital, some of them are from foreign countries, and very well schooled. They all consult back and forth on getting me well...sometimes, I have had to use regular medicine...other times I have used herbal remedies.

There have been other posts that I have made where you have ridiculed herbal remedies....I am very carefull about what I post on here...I have also repeatedly posted my respect for you as a doctor and your profession.  But I will NOT respect arrogance and condescending attitudes.  Like I previously said...this is the new way doctors are treating their patients ...and the patient is HUGHLY involved in their own care....no longer is it just a trip to the doctor and he looks at you and tells you what to do.... we sit down with our doctors and discuss options and the best way to treat the ailment...
My oncologist and I have a great repore...and he and I have had many discussions on herbal treatment and such....and guess what...he uses silversol...that's where I got the idea from.

My parents and sister and my husband and myself all go to different doctors....and you probably would have a coronary about the different herbal medicines that they have been prescribed by their doctors...including red rice yeast, garlic pills, and my sisters doc does NOT advocate the bird flu shot!  Imagine that!

I don't understand why you seem to have the need to provoke me.  I have tried to move on, and joke about our different beliefs, but you continue to try to provoke me..and you have done a good job at that.  Congratulations, you are the first person on this site EVER to accomplish that!  Even above the guy that called me that "amish egg chick" for defending some of the folks on this site because they were being named called....

I'll probably get kicked off for posting this...but it's obvious to me that you are not used to someone opposing you..  I will be sorry if I get kicked off...because I really enjoy this site....but I will walk away standing my ground....and I know my team of Doctors are going to get a real chuckle when I print this off and take it to them!

I only wish you well Flight ER Doc...and I truly wish you the best...but I'm not arguing with you anymore, and i will NOT address this anymore, no matter what you post...I thought we could just agree to disagree...

To the rest of you folks....now you get to see a MAD egg...not MAD because someone disagrees with me...MAD for the reasons I stated in the post...I probably behaved in an "un" lady like manner...and really let loose...but I'm pretty sure I won't be sorry for saying those things for a least a couple of days.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 09:41:49 PM by Amisheggpicker »
Proverbs 21:20  In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil,

but a foolish man devours all he has.

Offline ND Martin

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #71 on: February 01, 2013, 10:35:58 PM »
Ok Doc.  Here are a few good articles as an appetizer.  The main course is found in the references, but many if not most are not available on the web without fee.

A rational general discussion with no sales pitch

Silver nanoparticles: mechanism of antimicrobial action, synthesis, medical applications, and toxicity effects
Sukumaran Prabhu* and Eldho K Poulose

A good look at a method for production of CS and a possible delivery mechanism

Dissociation of colloidal silver into ionic form through membrane under electric field

Another article on iontophoresis that's a little quacked around the edges, just to show that the technique has been around for a while.

Silver Helps Regrow Tissues in Hundreds of Patients - Destroyed Cells Regenerate With Silver-Based Procedure

The snake oil salesmen would cite studies like the following as absolute proof of efficacy, but they're really just very preliminary work...

Silver nanoparticles as antimicrobial agent: a case study on E. coli as a model for Gram-negative bacteria

The Chinese seem to be doing the lion's share of work with AgNP and influenza A.  I don't have free access to this one but the abstract is sufficient for this early study.  (For those who glaze over at this technical material, there is NO discussion here about drinking snake oil that claims to contain silver nanoparticles to prevent the flu.  It just shows that silver can inhibit growth of H1N1 virus.)

Inhibitory effects of silver nanoparticles on H1N1 influenza A virus in vitro.  

This one's an antique (1955) in Portuguese with no abstract available, but the title's tantalizing, eh?

Resistance of influenza virus to the oligodynamic action of silver.


Offline ND Martin

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #72 on: February 01, 2013, 10:56:44 PM »
Early Estimates of Seasonal Influenza Vaccine Effectiveness — United States, January 2013

          In the United States, annual vaccination against seasonal influenza is recommended for all persons aged ≥6 months (1). Each season since 2004–05, CDC has estimated the effectiveness of seasonal influenza vaccine to prevent influenza-associated, medically attended acute respiratory infection (ARI). This season, early data from 1,155 children and adults with ARI enrolled during December 3, 2012–January 2, 2013 were used to estimate the overall effectiveness of seasonal influenza vaccine for preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infection associated with medically attended ARI. After adjustment for study site, but not for other factors, the estimated vaccine effectiveness (VE) was 62% (95% confidence intervals [CIs] = 51%–71%). This interim estimate indicates moderate effectiveness, and is similar to a summary VE estimate from a meta-analysis of randomized controlled clinical trial data (2); final estimates likely will differ slightly. As of January 11, 2013, 24 states and New York City were reporting high levels of influenza-like illness, 16 states were reporting moderate levels, five states were reporting low levels, and one state was reporting minimal levels (3).         

Offline Flight-ER-Doc

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #73 on: February 02, 2013, 06:01:52 AM »
While people are free to disagree, I notice that you ignore many of the questions I pose.....while people are entitled to their own opinions, they are not entitled to their own facts.....And there seems to be little support for Silversol and ABL other than their own website and press releases, at least medically.  The various patent reports are interesting but unimportant, medically.

let me start off by saying this....no matter what thing we are researching....we all can find things to sway our side of the opinion.  The search engines now have the capability of directing you to certain sites and not give you the whole scope...all of us can find what ever we want supporting our beliefs...and i also have a boyfriend that is a french model....

I'm not ignoring your questions per say....I didn't think they pertained to what i was saying...because I felt they were about colloidal silver...and making colloidal silver...which i don't make...but you believe silversol is the same as colloidal silver.  I also feel that the articles that I posted very much support it's use and I'm not posting my own facts...I'm posting the facts in the article (one of which came from a medical magazine)...I didn't make this stuff up in my head.

You and I both know, that you are not asking questions for knowledge sake....you are posing them in a "I'm superior" manner.... just make the statement...don't put it in question form...I have been nothing but kind to you, even while disagreeing with you.  I can't say you have been the same....

You come across as your way and your training is the "ONLY" way...I seem to recall that you and Traumahawk, (another doctor whom once was on this site had a disagreement too!)  There are doctors here, whom would vehemently disagree with you...My doctors use Silversol themselves...I have stated repeatedly that I think anyone interested in herbal medicine or alternative medicine should work closely with their Doctor...but you give me no credence what so ever...I don't need your approval...you take one thing I say and twist it...I know about the topical use of silversol...but when they used it for the flu, it was not topical..I only put that one on here so folks could see its topical uses...

I post things on here because I believe that folks should have a variety of options to choose from...not just one simple "my way or the highway" point of view...

I have my doctors....and let me say this....I had a doctors appointment yesterday...and when I walked in the room, she gave me an "applause"....you have no idea how very sick I was and how far I have come in becoming well...mostly through diet, exercise and herbal medicine...ALL under the Doc's watchfull eye...and I see several specialists in the same hospital, some of them are from foreign countries, and very well schooled. They all consult back and forth on getting me well...sometimes, I have had to use regular medicine...other times I have used herbal remedies.

There have been other posts that I have made where you have ridiculed herbal remedies....I am very carefull about what I post on here...I have also repeatedly posted my respect for you as a doctor and your profession.  But I will NOT respect arrogance and condescending attitudes.  Like I previously said...this is the new way doctors are treating their patients ...and the patient is HUGHLY involved in their own care....no longer is it just a trip to the doctor and he looks at you and tells you what to do.... we sit down with our doctors and discuss options and the best way to treat the ailment...
My oncologist and I have a great repore...and he and I have had many discussions on herbal treatment and such....and guess what...he uses silversol...that's where I got the idea from.

My parents and sister and my husband and myself all go to different doctors....and you probably would have a coronary about the different herbal medicines that they have been prescribed by their doctors...including red rice yeast, garlic pills, and my sisters doc does NOT advocate the bird flu shot!  Imagine that!

I don't understand why you seem to have the need to provoke me.  I have tried to move on, and joke about our different beliefs, but you continue to try to provoke me..and you have done a good job at that.  Congratulations, you are the first person on this site EVER to accomplish that!  Even above the guy that called me that "amish egg chick" for defending some of the folks on this site because they were being named called....

I'll probably get kicked off for posting this...but it's obvious to me that you are not used to someone opposing you..  I will be sorry if I get kicked off...because I really enjoy this site....but I will walk away standing my ground....and I know my team of Doctors are going to get a real chuckle when I print this off and take it to them!

I only wish you well Flight ER Doc...and I truly wish you the best...but I'm not arguing with you anymore, and i will NOT address this anymore, no matter what you post...I thought we could just agree to disagree...

To the rest of you folks....now you get to see a MAD egg...not MAD because someone disagrees with me...MAD for the reasons I stated in the post...I probably behaved in an "un" lady like manner...and really let loose...but I'm pretty sure I won't be sorry for saying those things for a least a couple of days.

You continue to insist that silversol is somehow different than colloidial silver, and make many references to their patent.  I posted a link to their patent as filed, which shows a novel method for making colloidial silver.

Sorry, but I'd need more than a manufacturers marketing hype to prove that.

"This isn't snake oil, it's an oleangeous extract of serpents"?  Or to put it another way, dressing up the pig with lipstick and mascara doesn't make it a Sports Illustrated swimsuit model.  The science still has to work, and Silversol, ABL, colloidial silver has none to show for itself.

Further, when they make claims (which you seem to put great stock in) that the FDA has approved them for something (not what you're talking about, a flu treatment or preventative) and the FDA doesn't seem to know about them, it's suspicious at best. 

My way isn't the only way:  Its called the scientific method.  It has a couple of things going for it, logical consistency, a reliance on repeatable process and results and 300 years of success.  If you choose to believe in something else, you are entitled to.  It's called faith (a belief system that is unbounded by science or fact);  but if you choose to believe in something else, why rely on science to justify it - and then ignore your justifications failings? 

To summarize our disagreements, topical is not internal, a patent is not a medical authority, and science is not faith.

Yes, I'm a physician.  No, I'm not YOUR physician.  Nothing I say here is medical advice.

Do I treat Glocks like I treat my lawn mowers?  No, I treat them worse.  I treat my defensive weapons like my fire extinguishers and smoke detector - annual maintenance and I expect them to work when needed

Offline Flight-ER-Doc

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Re: How Good Are Those Flu Vaccines?
« Reply #74 on: February 02, 2013, 06:33:00 AM »
Ok Doc.  Here are a few good articles as an appetizer.  The main course is found in the references, but many if not most are not available on the web without fee.

A rational general discussion with no sales pitch

Silver nanoparticles: mechanism of antimicrobial action, synthesis, medical applications, and toxicity effects
Sukumaran Prabhu* and Eldho K Poulose

A good look at a method for production of CS and a possible delivery mechanism

Dissociation of colloidal silver into ionic form through membrane under electric field

Another article on iontophoresis that's a little quacked around the edges, just to show that the technique has been around for a while.

Silver Helps Regrow Tissues in Hundreds of Patients - Destroyed Cells Regenerate With Silver-Based Procedure

The snake oil salesmen would cite studies like the following as absolute proof of efficacy, but they're really just very preliminary work...

Silver nanoparticles as antimicrobial agent: a case study on E. coli as a model for Gram-negative bacteria

The Chinese seem to be doing the lion's share of work with AgNP and influenza A.  I don't have free access to this one but the abstract is sufficient for this early study.  (For those who glaze over at this technical material, there is NO discussion here about drinking snake oil that claims to contain silver nanoparticles to prevent the flu.  It just shows that silver can inhibit growth of H1N1 virus.)

Inhibitory effects of silver nanoparticles on H1N1 influenza A virus in vitro.  

This one's an antique (1955) in Portuguese with no abstract available, but the title's tantalizing, eh?

Resistance of influenza virus to the oligodynamic action of silver.




Where to start.....

OK, first of all, where are the gold-standard tests showing that any of this stuff works?  Double-blind longitudinal multi-center studies, with tens of thousands of test subjects in the active arm and the inactive (placebo) arm?  They don't exist, and it's not for lack of interest by big pharma - if CS worked they'd patent a way to make it (buy ABL) and get FDA approval.

In fact, where are the Phase-I trials showing that there is serious interest in CS?

I will address specific comments about the citations you graciously provided later (either Sunday night or Monday since I'm working this weekend) but in general, if it's not a peer reviewed MEDICAL journal it carries little weight, in-vivo carries much more weight that in vitro, and yes, you can ionize most any metal if you pass it through an electrical field.
Yes, I'm a physician.  No, I'm not YOUR physician.  Nothing I say here is medical advice.

Do I treat Glocks like I treat my lawn mowers?  No, I treat them worse.  I treat my defensive weapons like my fire extinguishers and smoke detector - annual maintenance and I expect them to work when needed


 

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