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Author Topic: Cold Fusion a Reality?  (Read 3106 times)

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JustinHEMI

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Re: Cold Fusion a Reality?
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2011, 11:57:30 AM »
And...

I think you're trying to have your cake and eat it here.  So the Italian patent cuts no ice with you?  

Further, the patent is only good in Italy.  They aren't worried about credit, I don't think.  They're worried about somebody pirating their process.

An international patent has been filed.  Maybe that's what they are waiting for.

No no, I knew there are two different patents in discussion. That was my point of pointing out that they have an Italian patent. The Italian patent has been granted, because they don't require the same rigor as an international patent. That was the point that I wasn't clear on. I apologize.

Like I said, they need to worry about someone pirating their process when following the proper scientific channels.

However, since they are operating in the shadows, they also shouldn't be surprised about being met with rejections and skepticism.

No scientist is going to accept their claims, regardless of how many tin foil rapped devices they demonstrate, until the data is published and peer reviewed, it is that simple. If they really are scientists, this fact would not be foreign to them. If they are scientists with real data, they wouldn't fear using the scientific process.

Justin
« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 11:59:25 AM by JustinHEMI »

Offline Bill Quick

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Re: Cold Fusion a Reality?
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2011, 02:47:08 PM »
Quote
Like I said, they need to worry about someone pirating their process when following the proper scientific channels.

And this is the part I don't get.  Why would they have no worries if they "follow the proper channels?"

I presume you mean releasing their process for public scrutiny without a patent?

Why on earth would you think their process would be protected from pirating?

Microsoft can't even keep the Chinese government from cranking out ten zillion dupes of their much-protected software.

What would stop anybody from firing up an unpatented process?
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone


JustinHEMI

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Re: Cold Fusion a Reality?
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2011, 03:56:23 PM »
And this is the part I don't get.  Why would they have no worries if they "follow the proper channels?"

I presume you mean releasing their process for public scrutiny without a patent?

Why on earth would you think their process would be protected from pirating?

Microsoft can't even keep the Chinese government from cranking out ten zillion dupes of their much-protected software.

What would stop anybody from firing up an unpatented process?

We are at the point where you are going to have to study up on the scientific method and I have presented my position. If he is claiming "cold fusion," then it deserves to under go the rigorous trial of the scientific method, just like anything else on this planet. I apologize if my skepticism is bothersome.

That said, I will reiterate one more time to summarize my position, that if the proper data is presented, I will give it its fair trial and due recognition. Until then, it is my opinion that it is nothing more than snake oil. Be that as it may, I would LOVE for this to be real. Who wouldn't? Besides changing the would, it would certainly change the course of my doctoral dissertation since it would be new physics and I would have to scrap all of my work on the weak nuclear force.

Now we wait and see.

Justin
« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 04:04:32 PM by JustinHEMI »

Offline Bill Quick

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Re: Cold Fusion a Reality?
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2011, 04:52:41 PM »
Quote
We are at the point where you are going to have to study up on the scientific method
I'm sorry, but that sort of condescension is entirely uncalled for.  I am perfectly familiar with the scientific method.  What you seem unfamiliar with is protections for intellectual property, about which, I suspect, as a working, published author and screenwriter, I know a great deal more about than you do.

Further, you dodged my question.  After stating several times that they had nothing to fear from piracy if they did something which you refuse to clearly outline - and by the way, the "scientific method" has absolutely nothing to do with piracy, patents, or protections of intellectual property - you end up not not only not responding to legitimate requests for clarifications about fuzzy and unsupported statements you've made, but you also sneer at me.

UPDATE: Just to clarify:  There are two issues in this discussion.

1.  The legitimacy of the Foucard-Rossi cold fusion "reactor."

2.  How "submitting their research to scientific scrutiny" protects them from piracy.

I believe the first of these has reached a conclusion:  Wait and see.  If they do roll out a working reactor,  whether they publish or not, "nevertheless, it moves," and your skepticism may have been warranted, but turned out to be in error.

As to the second, I don't believe it has been anywhere near resolved, and I feel it is important, because you base your skepticism on their refusal to go public within the scientific community, and they say they refuse to do so until they have strong patent protection, for which they have applied.  You say the Italian patent, which they have received, requires "less rigorous" support, and it is a matter of legal record that it only applies to Italy, and offers no protections elsewhere.  So their stated position regarding holding off on release until they obtain strong patent protection makes sense to me.  

This second issue, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with the first issue, that is, whether the thing actually works or not, and how it works.  It deals purely with the protection of their intellectual property, which I think is a perfectly legitimate concern on their part.

If you would actually care to address the second without condescension, I'd be happy to hear your reasoning.

In short, your skepticism isn't bothersome, but your attitude is becoming greatly so.

« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 05:04:37 PM by Bill Quick »
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

JustinHEMI

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Re: Cold Fusion a Reality?
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2011, 05:09:35 PM »
Attitude? You sir are detecting attitude where there is none. I am not being condescending at all. You have clearly shown a lack of understanding of the patenting process and scientific method, and I have neither the time nor desire to educate you on either. That isn't me being condescending and it isn't my fault, to suggest otherwise is nothing but a straw man, and I take issue with you trying to bully me into your position. Like I said, you need to study up and you will understand and that isn't meant to be insulting. I have nothing to left to contribute. Take it as you will.

Good luck and good day.

Justin

« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 05:11:14 PM by JustinHEMI »

Offline Bill Quick

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Re: Cold Fusion a Reality?
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2011, 05:57:59 PM »
Justin, you just dodged the question again.  And your condescending attitude has worsened.

Congratulations!

You have just earned the dubious honor of being the first member whose registration I have revoked.

We really don't need your sort of attitude around here.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 06:30:31 PM by Bill Quick »
"You can get a lot farther with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone."  --   Al Capone

JustinHEMI

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Re: Cold Fusion a Reality?
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2011, 07:39:26 PM »
Well there is a childish response, which I guess is to be expected when one has nothing else except ad hominem attacks left. I didn't realize that the only position allowed on this forum was one that only agreed with your way of thinking. Had I known that, I wouldn't have wasted my time registering. And here I thought it was supposed to be better than that other place. I was wrong.

Never the less, you've convinced me...

Believing that the only thing holding up the most ground breaking, revolutionary new physics is a patent issue makes much better sense than believing it to be a lack of creditable data. I should have seen it all along.

Justin

PS It is a real shame you can't see past your own prejudice and be open to new ways of thinking. Remove my registration as you will, I couldn't care less at this point. I certainly don't want to be a part of a community that subscribes to one way of thinking and is at the mercy of a dictatorial administrator who wields his power against those of differing views and isn't willing to work out those differences. You imply disparity where there is none.

NOTHING I said was condescending. It is YOUR problem you take it that way. That is your character fault, not mine. I freely admit that I can be snarky at times, but condescending, never.

Peace, and happy prepping.

PPS If you need help figuring out how to rob me of my registration, feel free to ask. I know SMF very well.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 07:46:02 PM by JustinHEMI »


 

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